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  1. #10
    Player
    Ronduwil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Ronduwil Thaliakson
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Melichoir View Post
    To play devil's advocate here, wouldnt blanket statements about groups that actively dismiss their concerns as "frivolous" generally be considered a form of persecution?
    No. Dismissing someone's concerns is not persecuting them, especially when those concerns are unfounded. Of course, you have the right to complain. I never said otherwise. You just don't have the right to be taken seriously when your complaint is silly. For example, I'm not persecuting my kid when she complains that I won't let her eat Doritos for dinner. She has the right to whine and cry about it all she wants, but that doesn't mean I'm going to take her seriously. In the real-life example that I gave earlier, all the stores were flooded with wreaths, Christmas trees, Santas, and religious music. How is that a war on Christmas? How is that persecution? The cashier saying, "Happy Holidays," is not an attack on Christianity. After all, Christmas is a holiday too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melichoir View Post
    This is like saying "Youre the majority, therefore by virtue of that, you have no right to complain and you cannot be persecuted."
    No, it's not. As I said earlier, you have the right to complain. You don't have the right to be taken seriously. If you're going to complain that you're a Christian being discriminated against in a room full of Christians on the basis of your religion, then you'd better bring pretty compelling evidence because I'm going to find it unlikely, especially when all the visible evidence suggests otherwise. "Cannot be persecuted" is not the same statement as "not being persecuted." You're jumping to a completely different conclusion from what I stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melichoir View Post
    To show a different perspective with the same thought process, this would be saying you cant be racist towards whites on the simple basis theyre the majority in the western countries generally.
    This is a straw man argument. It's one thing to say that racism against whites can't exist. It's another to say that racism against whites does exist. I'm certain that racism against whites exists in some neighborhoods and among various cultural groups. Does it exist on a systemic basis in the United States? Absolutely not. It's less likely to exist when whites are a majority. When most of the people in charge are white, they are unlikely to discriminate against their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melichoir View Post
    The only way this argument works is if you make racial groups a monolith, rather than treating incidences and people as individuals.

    At the individual level, people can persecute others by faith in individual acts.
    What does this even have to do with what I was saying? The only point I was trying to make was that many Christians in the United States claim that they're being persecuted despite widespread evidence to the contrary. Most Christians don't make that silly claim. Very rarely, you'll find a case where a Christian was legitimately persecuted. The case of a guy who was forced to wash the ash off his forehead at school on Ash Wednesday comes to mind. More often than not, though, claims of persecution in the United States range from two men kissing in public to cashiers conveying season's greetings in a non-denominational manner.
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    Last edited by Ronduwil; 06-14-2019 at 07:05 AM.