Nobody Really Wants To Heal

[Kalise]

Welcome to the fundamental problem with Healers in how MMOs currently function.

Because we all want to 'feel powerful' with ilvl upgrades. For DDs, that means doing more damage. For Tanks, incoming damage goes down while outgoing damage goes up. And Healers … Well, as our own healing power rises, the Tanks damage intake is going down... So we get stronger and heal less often.

Only Healers have this problem.

Actually, Tanks often also fall into having a problem.

They gear up and take less damage... But face tougher enemies that hit harder and thus they are at a net neutral. Outside making previous encounters less interesting.

Also, there's that thing where devs just give Tanks more HP. No defences, just more HP. New gear? Only stat on it, Stamina. GG. This I assume is to make Healers feel more powerful, because their new bigger heals are doing more because the Tank is taking more damage because HP isn't defense, it's only buffer >.>

The other thing that happens is that when Tanks gear up... They gear AWAY from defence and into offense. This puts more onus onto healers needing to heal more (But also can actually increase personal mitigation in certain circumstances)

It's all a bit of a mess that no MMO has actually figured out the solution to, they all just copy the same faulty design that has persisted through the years...

* DPS get more damage as they gear up - This is fine and dandy. This is what the role is for and it is universally useful and will always have a feel good impact when you hit EVERYTHING harder.

* Tanks get... More tankiness? Which often is negated by increasing difficulty of fights as you progress... Or by Healers healing more anyway... Otherwise it's just more damage because damage is universally useful (Especially for holding aggro over the increasingly strong DPS)

* Healers get... More healing? But this can often just simply turn into overhealing. Especially if fights include massive HP swings (I.e. When a WHM uses Benediction on a 1HP Warrior that just soaked a TB with Holmgang... Having more healing doesn't do anything here, because it's already a 100% max HP heal on a literally 1HP target)

Tanks and Healers are less straightforward in their progression... Heck, even if Tanks didn't get tankier then healers are stuck in an odd situation, because if they can heal through encounters at lower gear levels... Then higher gear levels would still end up being a lot of overhealing wouldn't it?

Which is usually why in most MMO's when healers get more gear, it simply translates into them doing more DPS because of spending less time actually healing...

Ideally, a company needs to figure out a system where Tanks and Healers have their own, dedicated, infinitely scaling way of gearing. That doesn't run into the issues of Tank defence vs Healer healing vs Encounter damage all working to make things really convoluted and often causing Tank and/or Healer item level increases to not have the same feel good impact that DPS get with their straightforward damage dealing capacity.

[Sylve]

Er...but hitting the party frequently and unpredictably is what creates that (fun and engaging, in my experience) whack-a-mole effect? I’m confused how these two statements jive.

As a fellow Resto Shaman during LK progression, I fully agree that WOTLK was the last time healing was fun in WoW.
The whack-a-mole I refer to is present, BfA WoW (Though Legion and WoD wasn't much different). What I mean is that the entire party is taking taking damage at all times, it never stops. Theres nothing unpredictable about that, its just all of the damage, all of the time.

Also, the point of my post was that the frequent, unpredictable damage to the party is the better solution. Just don't go full whack-a-mole with it so I get the opportunity to consider which of my tools is best suited to the damage levels the party is currently at, rather than 'Medica is the best option to use always, for everything because the entire party never stops taking damage'

PS: I think XIV would benefit greatly from its own unique scaling of Dungeons.
Think reverse Level Sync. Syncing the Dungeon to the level of the party (requiring max level of course). Imagine doing your EX Roulette and having that Sastasha run scaled up to cap and dropping Aetherial versions of the base drops that were comparable, buyt not better, than the best obtainable gear from a standard max level EX dungeon.

If it was set up properly, we'd have 63 dungeons in the EX Roulettes as of now and then when we hit the new cap, the Syncing scales to the new cap and we have 63+ whatever number of dungeons the new expansion gave in the EX roulette. Alternative gearing methods via aetherial gear that scales to match the ilvl of current dungeon gear.
Give us the ability to push that Sync higher in premade parties to push up the difficulty and rewards.

Ideally, a company needs to figure out a system where Tanks and Healers have their own, dedicated, infinitely scaling way of gearing. That doesn't run into the issues of Tank defence vs Healer healing vs Encounter damage all working to make things really convoluted and often causing Tank and/or Healer item level increases to not have the same feel good impact that DPS get with their straightforward damage dealing capacity.

Damage to the Tank is a steady constant in raid content. Its party damage that usually causes wipes, as that party damage distracts the Healer and opens up opportunities for the tank to get KO'd. Which is why I advocate frequent unpredictable party damage. You don't need to worry about Tank scaling, since the Tank getting tankier would only lessen the effects of being distracted healing the party. Everyones HP naturally rises with better gear, so as long as the party damage was tuned properly, a Healer would be managing the health bars of the party and occasionally throwing in DPS if they're skilled enough to open a window to do so.
No need for reinventing the wheel as far as Tanking/healing gear/mechanics go.

[Kuurei]

Did you see that Titania fail wipe at E3?

We're going to be begging our healers for more healing output.

[Adrestia]

As a fellow Resto Shaman during LK progression, I fully agree that WOTLK was the last time healing was fun in WoW.
The whack-a-mole I refer to is present, BfA WoW (Though Legion and WoD wasn't much different). What I mean is that the entire party is taking taking damage at all times, it never stops. Theres nothing unpredictable about that, its just all of the damage, all of the time.

Oh yeah, very good distinction. Whack-a-mole, whether the arcade classic or the healing pattern, is no fun with a steady rhythm. You need to be put off your guard and then stressed. That’s super important.

[Stigmar]

I think people need to calm down and look at this from a different angle. We don't know what effect the potency numbers have as they have change, we can't be sure if the damage frequency from mobs has been increased and more importantly we don't have any hands on data of the final build so that being said we really need to wait and see try this stuff out and then if it's as bad as it is then add constructive criticism with suggestion on how to fix it as SE won't do anything until they have actual game data.

Also try to go into it with an open mind otherwise your just going to hate everything that is different without really experimenting with it and who knows it might of actually been a great change that gets remove because people are blinded with the perception they had going in.

[Deceptus]

Did you see that Titania fail wipe at E3?

We're going to be begging our healers for more healing output.

I saw a bard who didn't stack in the marker. I saw two dps who overlapped their aoe markers and one died because of it.

Same stupid dps stuff, different day.

[Kuurei]

I saw a bard who didn't stack in the marker. I saw two dps who overlapped their aoe markers and one died because of it.

Same stupid dps stuff, different day.

Same stupid DPS stuff that is basically already why I tend not to bother burning my MP on DPS except in extreme cases where nobody's taking any damage. Someone's always getting hit by something, and PUG Tanks are very inefficient with their cooldowns. I've had too many runs where a DRK completely forgets that The Blackest Night even exists, or a WAR forgets that Rampart is a role skill.

Not every group effort is a battle-hardened force of military veterans running a static. Accidents happen in statics; Accidents never stop in PUGS. Anything that will encourage healers to heal more is welcome, because the elite healers tend to forget this simple fact.

[Kewitt]

in FFXI I was Main WHM, I loved the job.

In FFXIV my 2nd goto job is WHM.
I can heal and play laid back without a care in the world or I can push myself and DPS and the tank can fear for there life on every pull.

I main Warrior, And I would say no one like Tanking. And theirs almost always being a tank Shortage I would say I'm right.

I would say I honestly like WHM more than warrior but good tanks are hard to come by for end game so I have been the main tank in my FC since 2.2ish.

[Kalise]

Damage to the Tank is a steady constant in raid content. Its party damage that usually causes wipes, as that party damage distracts the Healer and opens up opportunities for the tank to get KO'd. Which is why I advocate frequent unpredictable party damage. You don't need to worry about Tank scaling, since the Tank getting tankier would only lessen the effects of being distracted healing the party. Everyones HP naturally rises with better gear, so as long as the party damage was tuned properly, a Healer would be managing the health bars of the party and occasionally throwing in DPS if they're skilled enough to open a window to do so.
No need for reinventing the wheel as far as Tanking/healing gear/mechanics go.

Except... In this situation, you've put the emphasis on party damage, not Tank damage. So... What's a Tank getting out of gearing up? When the difference between a wipe and a save is how much the healer can heal the party? Tank gets tankier and... It doesn't matter because it's about how much the healer can heal the party?

Not to mention, Tank damage is not a steady constant. In so far as gearing goes. Tank damage is the only mechanic that double dips in effects of gearing. Since, Tank damage is influenced both by how well the Tank is geared, so how much damage they're mitigating. In addition, to being effected by how geared the Healer is, in how potent fluff damage mitigation/restoration is (Stuff like Regens and Shields).

This means that a Tank's gearing can be overshone by healer gearing if things like Regens are overhealing them constantly, or if a random Critlo negates all damage between tankbusters.

All this goes back to the initial qualm you raised, whereby Tank and Healer gearing actively works against the opposite role. Tank getting Tankier means the Healer has to heal less. Healer getting stronger heals means the Tank has to mitigate less. Both get stronger in their respective roles and... You have redundant stats because now you're mitigating too much and being healed too much where neither party feels like they've progressed or have anywhere left to progress.

You can argue about "Just make the non-Tanks take damage lul" but then... What's a Tank to feel? They're supposed to be protecting their allies by taking the focus, but now encounters are designed around other targets randomly being blasted that they can't do anything about? With not even their own mitigation mattering any more? Then there's the whole what's a Healer supposed to do when people start dying because if someone makes a mistake it can randomly mean their death because they get a vuln stack or take some damage and then get blasted in the face by RNG and die without being able to be healed?

How is gearing up either of these roles supposed to matter when the Tank no longer cares about mitigation, because the threatening damage isn't targeted at them and when the Healer no longer cares about stronger heals because it's only the DPS (Whom scale less with Vitality) that are being targeted by damage and thus can by unpredictable party damage in combination with a messed up mechanic cause insta-kills and thus not be healed?

In theory, the idea of a Tank becoming Tankier so that a Healer can focus on healing other targets, whom will unpredictably take damage so that the healer has to react sounds reasonable. But when you actually think about it, it doesn't do anything with the issue regarding gearing and it instead opens up a can of worms that involve potential one shots (Due to how mechanics work in the game) to DPS.

Like, yes, less predictable damage should be used. As well as both party and tank damage. But there should be generally more focus on the Tank taking damage, since that's literally their role. That's why they have a ton of mitigation skills.

Though, this discussion on how damage is dealt, is independent of one surrounding gear scaling with Tanks and Healers. Since, how damage is applied, doesn't negate the fact that Tanks and Healers negate each others gear progression by making the damage the Tank takes double dip in upgrades - Which, when every piece of content is supposed to be doable with minimum item level across the board, can quickly scale into a point where returns from upgrades are neither noticeable nor relevant. Again, as opposed to the DPS role in which more damage scales infinitely and is unaffected by any other role (I.e. A Tank being Tankier doesn't make your DPS's damage feel any less relevant. Same with a Healer healing more)

[Sylve]

Except... In this situation, you've put the emphasis on party damage, not Tank damage. So... What's a Tank getting out of gearing up? When the difference between a wipe and a save is how much the healer can heal the party? Tank gets tankier and... It doesn't matter because it's about how much the healer can heal the party?

Tanks gear up to more easily absorb Tankbusters.
The steady constant I referred to is the clockwork nature of the boss Autoattacks and Busters. You always know as the Healer that the Tank will be taking small hits every 2~ seconds and getting chunked on a timetable. The Tank gearing up means those smaller hits are more easily repaired via the Tanks own ability to self heal while the busters see are handled with cooldowns and repaired by the Healer. The more easily the Tank handles those busters, the less MP the Healer has to expend to repair it. In that sense, their gearing has synergy, if indirectly.
However, the clockwork nature of incoming Tank damage is part of the problem. Tis the reason I suggested boss abilities move to random cooldown times within a certain range. The mere fact that a Tank CAN have a mitigation cooldown available for every single Tankbuster devalues the Tanks gearing in the present game.
If those Tank busters came both more frequently and less predictably, The effect on their damage intake that ilvl upgrades have is more noticeable.
Please note though, that in such a scenario, the busters themselves wouldn't hit quite so hard and would force the tank to take care to ensure a sudden spike via back to back busters is manageable for the Healer should it happen.

In regards to the Tank 'protecting' the party and it feeling weird to the Tank that the party takes so much damage, how do you justify party damage in the current game? The Tank is doing their job by holding the dangerous foe at bay, but that dangerous foe has skills and abilities that hit an area. Even to roleplay a little, surely an enemy is intelligent enough to know that although the Tank has their focus, the guy with the Lance stabbing him in the kidneys and the other 6 people its engaged with are also a threat and will lash out at said threat regardless of what the Tank is doing.



On a somewhat related note, with the removal of skills like Diversion, DPS will no longer be able to easily control their Enmity generation. Making the Tanks gearing more relevant beyond basic mitigation concerns. They'll need that extra DPS afforded by the higher ilvls to keep up with the DPS. That's dependent on how effective the new Tank Stances are though.