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  1. #31
    Player
    JeanneOrnitier's Avatar
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    May 2017
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    630
    Character
    Noa Kyrie
    World
    Mateus
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    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RukiaFae View Post
    So if they are really primals, who summoned them?
    A pre-split society, I assume.
    (11)

  2. #32
    Player
    RobinMalvin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    166
    Character
    Robin Malvin
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    The guy's reaction at the end sold it for me.

    HOLY.....??!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier View Post
    A pre-split society, I assume.
    Could it be Ascians, by chance?
    (4)
    Last edited by RobinMalvin; 06-11-2019 at 11:42 AM.

  3. #33
    Player EaraGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ul’dah
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    822
    Character
    Eara Grace
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    “Through prayer and sacrifice, the will of the star was made manifest.” This line, if it’s not just pulled from something else entirely, poses other questions. Is he referring to Hydaelyn as the star? Or something else? And if it is Hydaelyn then that seems to fit poorly with everything else said, at least as it was shown in the trailer.
    (4)

  4. 06-11-2019 11:39 AM

  5. #34
    Player
    myahele's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    4,644
    Character
    Tonrak Totorak
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    The illustrations of Hydaelyn and Zodiark look a lot like Elementals


    If we're to believe that both are ancient Primals, then could it be that they were powerful Elementals that were worshipped and eventually turned into the 1st Primals?

    Whatever creature Ultima was originally, people worshipping her gave her sentience and became a primal-like creature. So I wonder if that's the case with Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

    I guess this confirms that there were people before the split?
    (17)
    Last edited by myahele; 06-11-2019 at 11:43 AM.

  6. #35
    Player
    RenewalXVII's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
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    84
    Character
    Marin Soriel
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by EaraGrace View Post
    “Through prayer and sacrifice, the will of the star was made manifest.” This line, if it’s not just pulled from something else entirely, poses other questions. Is he referring to Hydaelyn as the star? Or something else? And if it is Hydaelyn then that seems to fit poorly with everything else said, at least as it was shown in the trailer.
    The easy story is that a pre-Sundering society worshiped a Mother Earth equivalent, a being that encompassed the planet itself. Their belief engendered a primal that believed itself to thus be the planet's will incarnate.
    (11)

  7. #36
    Player
    Bonbori's Avatar
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    Jun 2018
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    496
    Character
    Iunia Arcena
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Weaver Lv 80
    Oh...

    Hm...

    Yes, yes. Makes sense.

    Seems obvious in retrospect.



    So that pretty much confirms that Echo is a form of tempering. It feels nice to finally win that debate.
    (1)
    Last edited by Bonbori; 06-11-2019 at 12:05 PM.

  8. #37
    Player
    Wyssahtyn's Avatar
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    May 2017
    Posts
    836
    Character
    Saika Kinoshita
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 53
    Quote Originally Posted by Genz View Post
    It's very brief but at 2:54 we see the heavensward logo with the title, as if it's a sensible object in the game universe.

    (and since i'm nitpicking brief images, at 3:10 we see Eden, same image in the g-force scene in FF8)
    Heavensward is basically just Count Edmont de Fortemps's memoirs.
    (20)

  9. #38
    Player EaraGrace's Avatar
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    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ul’dah
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    822
    Character
    Eara Grace
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    The easy story is that a pre-Sundering society worshiped a Mother Earth equivalent, a being that encompassed the planet itself. Their belief engendered a primal that believed itself to thus be the planet's will incarnate.
    Maybe, but that calls into question the Ascian’s actions. Why merge two primals? If they aren’t as important as we are led to believe then why even bother?
    (3)

  10. #39
    Player
    MrThinker's Avatar
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    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    902
    Character
    Jakaar Rakkin
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    On an unrelated note, Crystal Arm guy is a BLM trust
    (3)

  11. #40
    Player
    Rocl's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Final Call of Warcraft XIV
    Posts
    761
    Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by RenewalXVII View Post
    The easy story is that a pre-Sundering society worshiped a Mother Earth equivalent
    This was my gut feeling as well, but let's ... go a little more in-depth. While I'm not sure I was one of those "ridiculing" the theory, I was certainly somewhat critical of it.

    For my sanity's sake, let's do this chronological (by the trailer):

    Warrior of Light wandering in Lakeland, likely after we first pass to the First. We meet a lookalike of the carriage driver. We all know each starting city gets a different identical and now we get a fourth. This is a nice homage to the beginning of our journey! It's also definitely going to get people going and looking for First versions of other NPCs, and if those versions actually exist... it begs to question what the difference between the Shard really amounts to... if the same (or remarkably similar to the point beyond coincidence) people are born despite radically different histories.

    The idea of there being no Dark Knights for a hundred years is bothersome to me as well. It implies a sort of drought of capital D Darkness impedes the ability to wield lowercase d darkness. Cave paintings (weird that these cave paintings explaining the history of the world never came up on the Source) depicting a mono-god and immediately to the right, a split god. This appears to be the sundering, and the idea that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are lesser halves of a whole God, I guess. It looks like Urianger, Minfilia, Y'shtola and possibly Thancred/Minfilia are with the WoL in this scene. It zooms in on a specific cave drawing that it's difficult to make out what is, but it kind of looks like "the Source" island in Lakeland at a glance.

    Drawn image of Miniflia stopping the Flood of Light from devouring Amh Araeng. There's a female voice whispering in the background here, I can't make it out. We see the Warrior of Light shoot through darkness studded with floating crystals depicting the faces of our friends and foes. Some highlights include: Gaius van Baelsar (mask), Y'shtola, Urianger, Yotsuyu, Hien and the Warrior of Light himself reaches out for a crystal w/ Arbert's face. Time and space warp and blended in unexpected ways; this sentence is probably going to help us explain Trust and any time-skip shenanigans we get. Expecting us to spend forever in the First and it to be "a second" on the Source, or something (faint voiceover by Arbert). It sounds like our voicover is explaining to us Urianger saw the FUTURE while travelling between realms (and that explains his job change, I guess!).

    Image of Sin Eaters descending on Amh Araeng and a flash of older Minflia against a backdrop of white growing light. We're taken to battle scenes, the Warrior of Light leads a party of Trusts in the "burning village dungeon" with Enigmatic Figure on Thaumaturgy, Alphinaud on Scholar and Alisaie on Red Magic. Sin Eaters attack the Crystarium, and a Kuribu descends to face the Warrior of Light. We're given a primer in both voiceover and video on how Sin Eaters are born; they were one living people/beings who were (caught in the path? called to take part?) in the Flood of Light. There is no known cure—I wonder if this might explain Voidsent as well, that they were once living beings caught in the Flood and warped into monstrous beings. Which is why they manifest on the source primarily in the bodies of living beings on the Source, maybe whatever they were on the Thirteenth? Idle speculation. The Sin Eaters and Flood of Light is dated to be "nigh on a hundred years." One of the paths we see the WoL run up reminds me of the Second Coil of Bahamut tbh. There's just a white bear meandering around the Crystarium guards fighting Sin Eaters, wut. I guess white diremites and white bears are Sin Eaters too. We learn Sin Eaters are hard to kill because they function somewhat like self-summoning Primals? You kill one, and its aether reconstitutes into another Sin Eater not soon thereafter.

    Oh baby we see Eulmore. Totally jackin' Limsa Lominsa's style again, just with a bunch of purple tarps thrown over it. Sin Eaters are a part of Eulmore society! Some Light Succubus-looking creatures hang about a Winged Lion and an obvious Don Corneo homage. "That's him, that's Volthree[????]" sounds like Alphinaud. A mysterious mummer smiles at us while escorting townsfolk? It looks like there's another mummer and given Mt. Gulg, perhaps these are the Zorn/Thorn people have so long looked for since the Imperial twins showed up. A Gunobald look alike trains Thancred in the Crystarium, maybe Syrcus itself. A Sin Eater Kuribu goes to strike down what looks like an Auri child. I expect this Sin Eater to have been the parental/fraternal figure to said kid before dying and becoming an Eater. A Miqo'te man appears to have slashed his own wrist and arm to a group of shocked onlookers including the player character and Alphinaud in Eulmore. Voicover drones on about Sin Eaters being part of Eulmore society, which I suspect explains why Sin Eaters don't make a habit of razing the city when they can—they've formed a symbiotic relationship. The voiceover is definitely Mega Don Corneo who explains they feed the Sin Eaters living aether; human sacrifice, cool.

    Thancred takes on a Kuribu. Y'shtola erects her famous barrier to block an incoming hostile person, somewhat robed; the mad lad has his back to us so we can't make anything out. We get a close of up gritty Y'shtola, eyes still white, hair still immaculate, weird coat checked. Interesting serpent brooch thingy on her necklace. Alisaie attacks a Sin Eater in Amh Araeng. Some purple armoured folks in Lakeland have captured young Minfilia and are leading her somewhere. I suspect they caught her hiding out and are taking her to Eulmore, so she can't stop the Flood any further, or something. Because I guess Eulmore loves the Flood or whatever. We see older Minfilia stopping the Flood in Amh Araeng, it looks, it also appears to be an Echo flashback, but it's hard to tell. Urianger gives Thancred and the WoL a refresher on the Essences & Permutations—A Treatise on the Six Elements. Glad he's teaching the Sharlayan classics. Enigmatic Figure introduces us to a fae pixie in the Crystarium. A viera lancer prepares for battle and Alphinaud looks scornful in Eulmore. "This world is beyond saving, as are there those who tried to save it. This world has had its fill of heroes." Why so pessimistic? What did the Warriors of Darkness do? Did Norvrandt just lose hope as nothing changed after they left... but Minfilia came to help and stemmed some of the Flood! Why doesn't that inspire hope?

    IMPORTANT NOTE: A HERO WHO HARNESSES LIGHT AND DARK

    So, we're not going "full" Darkness, I feel. Gutfeeling. Wild, I know; right before our favourite surprise Ascian. Solus reveals his glyph. It's fainter than the other ones we've seen, weirdly enough, but like the others it's lifted from FFXII's Esper gylphs. This one is Zalera's and being such marks him as Emet-Selch. Suppress your shocked gasps, please, I've got another two minutes to go here. We cut to another dungeon, we know it's a dungeon because it has Urianger. They're fighting a gallu type monster model from FFXI while a city burns in the background. This city's architecutre looks like Sharlayan Hinterlands to me. Weird. The other Trusts are Y'shtola and Alisaie. There's an armadillo boss in another dungeon; one of the Eulmore Sin Eater gals takes up a spear and looks like Scathach, a Cerberus lumbers forward in Rak'tika. Titania appears to have summoned a giant tree spirit akin to some of the several giants we've fought recently in Swallow's Compass, or Sephirot, or Bardam etc. and executes her 'ultimate skill.' Innocence is shown taking up arms versus Eight Adventurers, with wings made of swords apparently. I can't quite place where this battle takes place, perhaps Eulmore or perhaps somewhere new! Her ultimate skill reminds me of Agrias' from the Orbonne Monastery.

    Estinien and Gaius speak. The Enigmatic Figure speaks to Alisaie, Alphinaud and the WoL. These scenes seem to be distinct having different backgrounds. It looks like hooded friend found a copy of Edmont's memoirs and read them. Some quick shots, we see Thancred, Alphinaud and the WoL lie knocked down. Arbert attacks something in Lakeland with a voiceover "Everything we did, everything we gave; what was it for?" Alphinaud looks upset at the Warrior of Light. A bunch of fast shots. Important notes: a giant symbol appears on the "star;" it looks similar to a Summoner's Involute markings in their recent Stormblood arms and has similarities to FFVIII's summoning of Eden (I guess! Other people say this and I see it too) Don Corneo has a purple fist glowy fist. Alphinaud cradles his limp sister's body in his arms and cries to the heavens. Please no. The Warrior of Light [?] stumbles forward cloaked in Darkness. Thanred is defeated and bruised in Amh Araeng. Flashback [?] of Enigmatic Figure in the Crystarium doing something with his staff. A bunch of those crystals from the beginning when the WoL flew through the void crash into the WoL and make a bunch of aetherial sparklies. The WoL is standing in the void, but on no seal whatsoever. Two Minfilias meet. The Scions watch something rise from the ground (fall?). The Warrior of Light is cloaked in bluish white aether and looks up and channels it to cut apart the Light and bring back the Night. "How many years have I waited for this moment, for the one possessed of Her Blessing, for you"

    SOLUS: Through prayer and sacrifice, the Will of the Star was made manifest.
    ALPHINAUD: I'm sorry I can only assume I misheard. It sounded an awful like you were implying that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are not gods but...
    SOLUS: They are gods after a fashion, yes—the eldest and most powerful of Primals

    I hate this bit, and for reasons I will explain after the break.


    It took me two hours to sit down and properly digest it, apologies for the length above, I'll endeavour to keep it shorter here now.

    I had a lot more written here, but ignoring the advice of literally everyone I wasn't keeping back ups and lost power briefly and therefore my edit! So, I'll cut to the basics:
    The minutae of how the story progresses is not worth fretting right now. I don't understand why Eulmore furthers the Sin Eaters' cause. I don't know why the First has given up so easily, especially after seeing Minfilia stop the Flood. In fact, it's seemed to make her a villain in the eyes of Eulmore and whoever the purple armored Lakelanders are. I don't like Urianger seeing the future; but it is what it is. I hope Minfilia-Young and Minfilia-Old aren't "two" Minfilias from the First and Source respectively. If something happens to Alphinaud I will burn down my house.

    For the big twist; I'm not a fan with what we know. Let's say Hydaelyn is a Primal, where did Zodiark come from? Is He a consequence of the original summoning? Why do the Ascians rebel against the "Earth Mother/Gaia" people prayed to? What made the benevolent mother Goddess such an affront? If the Ascians summoned Zodiark in opposition, is it worth the sacrifice? The timeline doesn't make sense to me either—then again, it's the beginning of the world. Elidibus holds up Gerun to Urianger as a definitive truth and it says "before man, Light and Dark were divided." If it was before man, who summoned them? This proto-superior race Varis talks about? It's curious that we only see the lesser races represented, who should've only come about after the Sundering, right? But that leaves 12,000 years for such divergent paths of evolution. It feels unlikely (unless we get some magic excuse like FFXI where they were mutated because of the world shattering). It generally feels like Elidibus and Hydaelyn tell the same story with different framing, but Solus rebels against them both. Why would Solus share this information with us? Elidibus is wont to say these things when they think we'll be swayed but.... it feels like this revelation wouldn't make the Warrior of Light side with either.

    FURTHERMORE: IFRIT WAS ALWAYS RIGHT is implausible at best.

    Ifrit attempts to Temper the Warrior of Light and cannot. He can't Temper us, and assumes we're already Tempered—but he doesn't detect any "taint of another" upon us. Hydaelyn's Blessing, the Echo, doesn't register to him, a primal, as Tempering. It feels unlikely the Warrior of Light is Tempered by Hydaelyn. The fact he cannot Temper us, and sees we are not Tempered, leads him to believe us to be "one of the godless blessed," which was a huge mystery in 1.0 and summarily explained to us in ARR before we ever get to the Bowl of Embers in ARR. The Paragons, the Ascians, warned Ifrit about the godless blessed and we should be killed. Why all this subterfuge? Why did the Ascians give him this knowledge? "If you can't temper a person, kill them!" should've sufficed. Why the exposition? Why tell him "if you can't Temper them, they might already be Tempered; if you can see they're not Tempered and you can't Temper them, kill them cuz they're godless blessed." It feels like way too much information to give him for the same result—why keep the existence of Hydaelyn as a competing Primal from the Tribal Gods? Garuda acts incredulously, at first, when we're unable to be Tempered and only after we rip a Crystal of Light from her and activate the full power of our Blessing (wind is our sixth crystal originally!) does Garuda acknowledge a "foul stench" and that "She" has touched us.

    If you read this far, stop here and read my later post because I just shot a hole in my own foot researching the above.
    (8)
    Last edited by Rocl; 06-11-2019 at 02:43 PM.

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