The loss of Shield Swipe

[Shurrikhan]

Of course, they could have always just reworked the skill to not be proc'd from blocking and simply be an oGCD skill to use with possibly an increased CD... But *Shrug* who knows what's going on in SE's minds, where skills like Shield Swipe, Steel Peak, Howling Fist and Dark Passenger get axed. While skills like Shield Bash, Mantra, Fire II, Blizzard II and Living Dead remain untouched, being neither removed or reworked into something better designed...

But, if we removed stuff people didn't actually care about, how would they feel compelled to try out the new stuff that's mostly just rehashes of what was already given to, or axed from, some other job?...

Inb4 TBN kills you if it doesn't break...

I'm sorry, but somehow the sheer ridiculousness of that is making me imagine a DRK toolkit for which that would actually be cohesive and, damn, I'd rather play even that than 5.0 DRK.

[Fluffernuff]

Wouldn't it, perhaps, make more sense to have it generate Blood proportionate to shield consumed, rather than all or nothing?

I still really want TBN to work like excog

[Shurrikhan]

I still really want TBN to work like excog

Wouldn't that give it a high chance to return no HP (or do so only after the duration ends, making it likely overheal), make it unable to as often stack with other sources of eHP increase, and do nothing against being one-shot?

I'm probably not imagining it correctly, but a direct copy of Excog into TBN would definitely face such issues.



EDIT:

Excog triggers a heal at 50% OR upon it timing out.

(or do so only after the duration ends, making it likely overheal)

I'm aware of how Excog works. I'm just wondering why you'd want that particular design, especially seeing as you'd essentially be sacrificing the usefulness of TBN against any significant tankbuster by turning it into a reactive heal, all for the added bonus of... overhealing.

[Fluffernuff]

Wouldn't that give it a high chance to return no HP (or do so only after the duration ends, making it likely overheal), make it unable to as often stack with other sources of eHP increase, and do nothing against being one-shot?

I'm probably not imagining it correctly, but a direct copy of Excog into TBN would definitely face such issues.

Excog triggers a heal at 50% OR upon it timing out.

TBN only triggers after the shield breaks, not when the timer expires.


So in other words, I want TBN's extra effect to trigger after the buff expires. Like Excog

[Shurrikhan]

Would have been neat if you could place Sheltron on someone else and have those "blocks" trigger shield swipe.

Air Strike Shield!

So like the self- or target-castable idea for Aegis Boon, which Sheltron effectively replaced? But, minus the target then being healed for the amount blocked...

[Lyth]

A really easy way to make Swipe work would have been to have it proc either if you take damage with Sheltron active or if an ally takes damage with Intervention/Cover active. PLDs are historically bodyguards to the Sultanate, so you would expect the knight with the big riot shield to prod you in the back with it every time that you try to bully their wards. 'Oi.'

I know that interrupts are supposed to be more important from a tank perspective this time around, but I still think that I'd prefer keeping Swipe over Bash. I wish that 'counterattacking' was more a part of the tanking aesthetic.

[ADVSS]

A really easy way to make Swipe work would have been to have it proc either if you take damage with Sheltron active or if an ally takes damage with Intervention/Cover active. PLDs are historically bodyguards to the Sultanate, so you would expect the knight with the big riot shield to prod you in the back with it every time that you try to bully their wards. 'Oi.'

I know that interrupts are supposed to be more important from a tank perspective this time around, but I still think that I'd prefer keeping Swipe over Bash. I wish that 'counterattacking' was more a part of the tanking aesthetic.

I agree but we all know why it and reprisal/low blows in their original forms are gone. Though a repurposed SS could totally work, oh yeah except for a similar reason but oppositte. Essentially, these skills somehow would put a tank in more of a MT or OT position, esp if its a dps gain to do so.

[Shurrikhan]

I agree but we all know why it and reprisal/low blows in their original forms are gone. Though a repurposed SS could totally work, oh yeah except for a similar reason but oppositte. Essentially, these skills somehow would put a tank in more of a MT or OT position, esp if its a dps gain to do so.

The reason is well noted, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to find it reasonable. Personally, I prefer for tanks to need to be, well, tanking, to use their full kit. Make them equally "MT" if you must, but I'd rather have tanks swapping in to use their CDs at greater efficiency then each have a their own --mostly homogeneous-- OT external mitigation. I didn't mind PLD mostly having a dominion on that stuff because it is, frankly, just utility (so long as the external mitigation comes at shared resource cost to personal mitigation or to proportionate cost to their selection of other "free" utilities).

[ADVSS]

The reason is well noted, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to find it reasonable. Personally, I prefer for tanks to need to be, well, tanking, to use their full kit. Make them equally "MT" if you must, but I'd rather have tanks swapping in to use their CDs at greater efficiency then each have a their own --mostly homogeneous-- OT external mitigation. I didn't mind PLD mostly having a dominion on that stuff because it is, frankly, just utility.

Absolutely agree. but then theres always going to be "cuts" and button bloat is just the easiest reason for those cuts, I suppose. Personally, I'm all for all the tanks having some sort of reactive play, since stuns and such lost their effectiveness after 50

[Lyth]

I agree but we all know why it and reprisal/low blows in their original forms are gone. Though a repurposed SS could totally work, oh yeah except for a similar reason but oppositte. Essentially, these skills somehow would put a tank in more of a MT or OT position, esp if its a dps gain to do so.

You mean like Vengeance, right? I can see the reasoning, but if that were truly the case, it shouldn't be applied with a double standard. Button bloat makes more sense, but even there, it was probably one of the more fun abilities in PLD's kit.

It's actually not that difficult to incorporate counterattacks for all tanks. Every tank has an MT and OT on-demand/short recast cooldown. Just tie a counterattack proc to both, such that you get rewarded for mitigating well. Or even use an existing oGCD, and just have it reset on proc.