RDM Scortch

[Archwizard]

Im really sorry, but why are Dots necessary? RDM has twincast. Dots more or less are Autoattack+ skills, that do add to overall dps but just do filler, consecutive damage over time. Since we can spam 2 spells in one GCD, or 1.1 GCD's it doesnt really seem to make sense that we need constant new auto attack like damage, to be RDM. I just dont see it being necessary in our kits over any other class or job in the whole game atm. The only depth we needed was an option for aoe finishing, and maybe a bit more complexity in aoe rotation. Some more utility, as some suggested "as upgrades to our identity and give more useful edge in raiding beyond prog" but a dot? We're part white mage and part black mage, we dont even follow Arcanist. And sure whm and blm have their few dots, but we dual cast, all the time, every time. But sure if its really that big of a deal, i just figured small aoe burst was the big area we were lacking in, not dot management, without a bane type mechanic, im sure cause it wasnt mentioned. We got a lot of single target. Another dot wont change that.

Alright, misconceptions here:

1) I never said DoTs were necessary. I said I don't care if we get one one way or the other, I just won't dismiss the suggestion or quit RDM if we did get one.
Besides, if not for DNC, where else would you even go. Even with a DoT, RDM would probably still be the most simplistic job available.

2) Even with Dualcast we still cast one spell per GCD. It just means that the cast time of half our spells won't occupy the entire GCD, allowing us periods to cast oGCD skills without any time loss.
You seem a little confused about what a GCD is. The "Global Cooldown" that initiates on most of your skills once you cast a spell, to prevent you from casting multiple actions simultaneously? That's your GCD. It tends to finish just after we finish our shortcast spells, allowing us to cast our next immediately. After we unleash an instant spell (ie through Dualcast), we have a period of about 2 seconds where we cannot cast any more spells, due to the second GCD, but can use "off GCD" tools like Fleche.

3) DoTs aren't exactly like auto-attacks. They do scale with spell speed the same way auto-attacks would normally scale with other speed effects (though I think I've heard mention it doesn't work like that in XIV, I don't play melee so I can't say for sure), but the need to keep the DoT applied creates a significant difference.

Let's take an example like, say, Aero II. It deals 50 potency damage outright, then another 50 potency every tick for 18 seconds; with each tick at 3 seconds as a base, that comes out to 6 ticks, or 300 potency from the DoT plus 50 from the initial cast. Aero II in effect is a single GCD worth approximately 350 potency -- meaning if there are any GCDs you have of higher value, you'd use those over Aero II anyway.
However, this relies on two factors: One, that spell speed isn't high enough to meet any breakpoints necessary to increase the number of ticks per cast (additional scaling with spell speed means that the maximum damage potential of the skill can go up by a slightly higher amount than normal skills with gear), and two, that the DoT is refreshed such that it remains near-constantly active on the target and gets close to its maximum number of ticks per cast.
Meaning, a single cast of Aero II is only worth 350 potency if it's cast no more frequently than every 7-8ish GCDs. Unlike auto-attacking, however (which can be disrupted any time you and the boss gain distance from one another, meaning it's effectively a constant maintenance of distance rather than time), just like any other damage effect, once it's cast, the damage is already on the target, you just gotta wait.
Compare this to an effect such as, say, Contre Sixte, which is worth 350 potency every cast, but can only be cast at most every 35 sec.

It's a matter of perspective. DoTs are basically just cooldowns, just less braindead so you can't just macro them or stare at your hotbar.

4) Dualcast doesn't substitute auto-attacking, I don't even know where this train of logic is even coming from.
In fact, somewhat ironically due to Dualcast, the large periods of GCDs where we aren't animation locked by casting means we could theoretically auto-attack between casts, unlike a BLM... just that our Strength and attack speed are so pathetically low that it'd only amount to the damage of maybe one cast over the course of a fight and it's not worth it for us squishy casters to stand so close.

RDM now has a 110s Manafication and Enchanted Reprise; these additions allow RDM to manage their burst windows to align better with the 60s Trick burst windows if used right (see the 120s Burst Rotation in the linked doc.) Not to mention Manafication and Embolden are both timers any RDM would want to line up no matter what, and careful mana management will see one to that goal. I consider that a good iterative expansion without needing to add a DoT, but even today lining up a double verfinisher very much lines up with a timer to burst within."

And those are great for lining up burst windows with a bit of group coordination, but they don't require upkeep on the RDM's part; at worst you hold them a few seconds for everyone else, which is not something you could compare to keeping Enochian up or holding Deathflare till the very last second of your Trance window.

Any gameplay element that's going to be significant to the job's rotation will be a disruption of some sort. I suppose I'm coming at it from the angle of "If the DoT wouldn't add anything to the rotation, why add a DoT?"

And I absolutely agree. I don't agree with having Scorch gain a DoT for a DoT's sake because it doesn't add to the gameplay and is effectively just raw potency for Scorch -- if you'll reread my original post, I only acknowledged Patronas' sentiment about DoTs on Verholy and Verflare, which I can understand to reward and encourage alternating between the two, even if I can accept there are alternative methods to accomplish the same goal.
Thunder on BLM is interesting not because of its maintenance or damage, but because of the additional mechanic of Thundercloud (or that would be the case, anyway, if not for people just holding Thunder for UI phase regardless due to tight GCD timing on AF; a good idea in perhaps the wrong place). Likewise, I think concepts like VerRadiance and VerShadow are on the right track because they encourage new mechanics beyond raw maintenance and I can agree with their goals of increasing the skill ceiling, even if I may disagree with the specifics of their stated implementation.

Blanket statements about "no DoTs though, because I don't want any timers" just arbitrarily limit design potential.