The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[Mistyregions]

I mean, look the hierarchy goes tank, healer, dps that's overall the way the cookie crumbles. Content is "designed" to be pulled one pack at a time. Just because you can do something , doesnt mean it was intended.

My solution, since we apparently all cannot get along and want to be stubborn? Everything level syncs up so it impossible to do wall to wall, or put more walls in.

Then, we can play by the rules set forth. The tank is the tank, we don't need to worry about anyone pre pulling anything and dps get to dps, healers get to heal.

Now we act like grown adults and avoid this by simply saying, hey tank of you want pull wall to wall I got you. If he say cool, cool. If he says no then he doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It may be a team game but the defacto person in charge is the tank. Dont like it? Just like in life you can promote yourself to team leader by doing the job yourself. This isn't a democracy, it's a meritocracy. That means the tank outranks you. Don't like your circumstance? Change it. Dont like tanking? We all have to sacrifice and do things we don't like to get things accomplished our way and we need to stop pushing our expectations on someone else and take responsibility for our actions and future. Be professional, be tactful, be an adult and respect others wishes while engaging with their hobbies.


Or we can change the game to treat us all like irresponsible whiny entitled children. No skin off my back, I don't get riled up when children throw tantrums, because every pond has scum in it.

[Shurrikhan]

I mean, look the hierarchy goes tank, healer, dps that's overall the way the cookie crumbles. Content is "designed" to be pulled one pack at a time. Just because you can do something , doesnt mean it was intended.

Intent has zero relevance to the impact of design. If you made it to be food, but it works better as an explosive such that everyone soon uses it instead as a weapon, sorry, but that's an explosive.

If it can be done, and doing so is a net gain, then design encourages it. Whether that was intended or not has no place in the conversation.

[Mistyregions]

Intent has zero relevance to the impact of design. If you made it to be food, but it works better as an explosive such that everyone soon uses it instead as a weapon, sorry, but that's an explosive.

If it can be done, and doing so is a net gain, then design encourages it. Whether that was intended or not has no place in the conversation.

Intent of design is relative in game design, and i guess we need to lock down your ideas and make sure the intent is made clear then? Since we cannot respect when others play the content as intended

[van_arn]

Just like in life you can promote yourself to team leader by doing the job yourself. This isn't a democracy, it's a meritocracy. That means the tank outranks you. Don't like your circumstance? Change it. Dont like tanking? We all have to sacrifice and do things we don't like to get things accomplished our way and we need to stop pushing our expectations on someone else and take responsibility for our actions and future. Be professional, be tactful, be an adult and respect others wishes while engaging with their hobbies.

It actually is a democracy when the party fires the tank with a votekick.

I'm fine with the game adjusting incoming and outgoing damage to be less paste-eating simple, but that's not something Square is going to do. And unless they do, you'll be expected to operate at a pace your party is comfortable with. Even if that pace is uncomfortable to you personally, time to time. Because the healer can forcibly take over the healing AND tanking roles with the numbers as they are.

Ultimately, a tank's self-importance doesn't count for much when the only reason they remain in the party is that party's good pleasure. Tip the scales and the tank is gone just like that.

[Mistyregions]

It actually is a democracy when the party fires the tank with a votekick.

I'm fine with the game adjusting incoming and outgoing damage to be less paste-eating simple, but that's not something Square is going to do. And unless they do, you'll be expected to operate at a pace your party is comfortable with. Even if that pace is uncomfortable to you personally, time to time. Because the healer can forcibly take over the healing AND tanking roles with the numbers as they are.

Ultimately, a tank's self-importance doesn't count for much when the only reason they remain in the party is that party's good pleasure. Tip the scales and the tank is gone just like that.

See in democratic system, a bad agent usually is punished by the group for not working together as intended.

There are zero repercussions as a tank, kick me? Fine I re que instantly with little to no loss, i still get my bonus and i am more likely to play with adults than children.

[van_arn]

See in democratic system, a bad agent usually is punished by the group for not working together as intended.

There are zero repercussions as a tank, kick me? Fine I re que instantly with little to no loss, i still get my bonus and i am more likely to play with adults than children.

I'm saying that's perfectly fine; the goal is to merely get rid of the person that got voted out. You're someone else's problem at that point.

[Mistyregions]

I'm saying that's perfectly fine; the goal is to merely get rid of the person that got voted out. You're someone else's problem at that point.

You are missing the point of the ability to kick, thus you are abusing it in a childish manner.

You are supposed to kick bad actors because it's a negative gain, griefing, abusive behavior, offline, etc. It by in all rights is supposed to be a punishment, that's a core tenant of democracy, this is not the case with the current system. Its is a meritocracy and thus tanks suffer no ill consequences.

Kicking a tank, playing the game as intended under the orginal design is not a net loss to the tank at all, it's a net loss to yourself and the other players. You must wait for another tank, by the time that's happened you could have been done. Meanwhile the other tank you kicked is probably half way through the new dungeon they re q into. Thus it's ethire a zero gain/ zero loss or positive gain because overall they spent less time for the same rewards you receive plus not having to play outside of their box, and most importantly not playing with people who push expectations on a role, instead of doing it themselves like an adult.

I'm sure you are going to strawman my comment by only quoting a specific phrase I mentioned because a constructively conservative is lost upon you.

[van_arn]

You are missing the point of the ability to kick, thus you are abusing it in a childish manner.

You are supposed to kick bad actors because it's a negative gain, griefing, abusive behavior, offline, etc. It by in all rights is supposed to be a punishment, that's a core tenant of democracy, this is not the case with the current system. Its is a meritocracy and thus tanks suffer no ill consequences.

Kicking a tank, playing the game as intended under the orginal design is not a net loss to the tank at all, it's a net loss to yourself and the other players. You must wait for another tank, by the time that's happened you could have been done. Meanwhile the other tank you kicked is probably half way through the new dungeon they re q into. Thus it's ethire a zero gain/ zero loss or positive gain because overall they spent less time for the same rewards you receive plus not having to play outside of their box, and most importantly not playing with people who push expectations on a role, instead of doing it themselves like an adult.

I'm sure you are going to strawman my comment by only quoting a specific phrase I mentioned because a constructively conservative is lost upon you.

What's childish is expecting a party to put up with you when they don't like you.

Kicks are there to resolve disputes before they happen. If you're playing in a way that removes you from your party's good graces, you're going to get kicked. This is intentional.

You're also overestimating the amount of time it takes to replace a tank, not to mention how much happier the party that you were kicked from is when you're removed. If there is a penalty to time -- which isn't always, thanks to healers being able to take your job -- it is gladly paid to get rid of the player who has left the party's good graces.

And honestly? If you're in a situation where you're replacing a terrible tank you'll probably make that time back with the replacement's inevitably increased pace.

[MirielleLavandre]

If there is a penalty to time -- which isn't always, thanks to healers being able to take your job -- it is gladly paid to get rid of the player who has left the party's good graces.

See this right here is what I mean... can a healer take the tanks job in the most current expert dungeon -- please show me ^^ I will gladly admit that I'm in the wrong when I see a party of 3 dps and 1 healer (preferably you or Healer Adjust) complete Ghimlyt Dark in under 30 minutes. Again, this is twice the amount of time it would take with a decent tank, assuming it can be done at all. Of course, if you're @ 410 that is already +50 ilvl over the minimum...not being adversarial, but just genuinely curious if it can be done.

[Mistyregions]

What's childish is expecting a party to put up with you when they don't like you.

Kicks are there to resolve disputes before they happen. If you're playing in a way that removes you from your party's good graces, you're going to get kicked. This is intentional.

You're also overestimating the amount of time it takes to replace a tank, not to mention how much happier the party that you were kicked from is when you're removed. If there is a penalty to time -- which isn't always, thanks to healers being able to take your job -- it is gladly paid to get rid of the player who has left the party's good graces.

And honestly? If you're in a situation where you're replacing a terrible tank you'll probably make that time back with the replacement's inevitably increased pace.

Are this is the disconnect, I don't expect anyone to play with me if they dont like me, I agree.

Not liking me because I play how the game is intended or not the way YOU want me to play is childish and is something I only see in daycare and preschool.

Even middle schoolers grow out of that phase.