The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[Taramin]

IDK if this has been posted in the last 37 pages, but as a RDM main, I kinda prefer smaller pulls, honestly. MAYBE ShB will mix it up, but I can only spam Scatter so many times before my brain falls out and my hand cramps up. The occasional excitement of moulinet spam isn't spicing it up, either.

[Seraph522]

IDK if this has been posted in the last 37 pages, but as a RDM main, I kinda prefer smaller pulls, honestly. MAYBE ShB will mix it up, but I can only spam Scatter so many times before my brain falls out and my hand cramps up. The occasional excitement of moulinet spam isn't spicing it up, either.

We're getting Verthunder II and Veraero II to act as our Dualcast starters in AoE in Shadowbringers, with Scatter being the Dualcast off of them (and getting upgraded to Impact at level 66, which is now an AoE ability). We still don't have an AoE Verfinisher, which is kind of annoying, and it doesn't change things up that much, but at least we won't be spamming Scatter nonstop.

[Aurelius2625]

I mean, there are a LOT of garbage tier dps and healers. Yesterday, in o11s, I was top dps as PLD, I'm NOT even kidding on this, it was pathetic. It was locked to Duty Complete, btw.

Look, tanks should be able to full pull by lvl 50. No excuses. But I, as one of the top tier tanks in game (you can, if resourceful, go to a certain website and put my character name in to confirm this), who has cleared The Weapon's Refrain: Ultimate eight times, will say that even though I'm at the apex of players in this game, I have the patience to accept and understand that not everyone is hardcore like me. Or, that they can play like me.

As long as everyone is giving a solid effort and receptive to tips, I'm fine. I used to think and paint with a broad brush like a lot of try hards, but I've grown from that, a little at least....

People should be encouraged to be better...there are WAY too many casuals in this game and it sorely needs to be fixed. But you don't fix that by kicking them or treating them like garbage. They are human beings. Talk to them. Try to reason with them. If not? Then kick, I guess. But don't bitch and moan that there are not that many "good tanks/heals/dps" if you kicked the ones that could have gotten better had you just slowed your roll a bit and taught them a thing or two.

One of my good friends, Sihan was new to raiding and I helped them out a lot. They were probably one of the "bad players" you all talk about, but I helped them, and with their own effort, they are a savage raider now. You have NO IDEA what the person on the other side of that screen is capable of until you LISTEN to them and TALK to them.

[Fluffernuff]

DRK came with another healer, GNB did not. But who knows, that was only my wishful thinking. Like I said, maybe such change would put bad tanks back in their proper place instead of thinking they shouldn't be "forced" to play in a way other than their own.
I'd like to see that. You spanked, you tank it... and you are getting kicked immediately after for not doing your job and will have to wait for another party to fulfill your personal Bossy Tank RP needs.

And.... verbally abusing someone, mocking them, and kicking them for not being submissive to your demands...... keeps them around? If this is how youre going to treat a GNB, then why would their numbers swell?

I'll admit the overall entitlement argument is interesting, but its rather contrary to this idea of tank numbers rising because of gunbreaker.

One of the major roadblocks for people even TRYING tanks is because of all the perceived vitriol and abuse theyll get for not being perfect. Something you and yours are perpetuating with this. You want more tanks in circulation? don't run them out with your own sense of entitlement. Don't be a hypocrite. Vengeance isnt vindication.

If things play out how you like, there will be more tanks because more people are playing gunbreaker.... but can we continue the thought? where will those gunbreakers be after being told theyre slow? arent dping their job, getting kicked from dungeons without the ability to get their feet in the door, and than spat on and called entitled babies?

I would ask in the name of science, do that on launch to every tank and we can talk about how many dungeons you got through with the same tank, or even completed at all. I dont expect that number to be very high. I've found that it's very counter-productive to raise yourself up by destroying someone else. Things are much smoother more often when youre civil and amicable. not always. but mostly.

[Fynlar]

It absolutely does, being a "fact" doesn't negate that. As yourself admitted, Tanks feel "safe" because of it. It's not that hard to see how having a safety net can encourage special snowflake behavior in some people, leading them to think they should be treated differently just because one detail in the game favors them more.

Except I don't think tanks should be treated differently. I think everyone should be treated with respect.

But the bottom line is, I simply have less to fear from being kicked as a tank (or healer) because getting another party is no problem. That isn't my fault, nor my problem to solve.

If you take issue with tanks feeling "comfortable" enough to approach/pull a dungeon in the way they choose, you may want to take a look at the player behaviors/attitudes that have led them to feeling that way.

You shouldn't fear being kicked at all if you were not doing anything wrong or selfish in the first place.

The thing is, healers and DPS don't have to fear kicks from pacing a dungeon in a way the others don't like... because they don't control the pace of the dungeon. The tank does.

And no matter how a tank paces a dungeon they run the risk of their party not liking it. I've been kicked from a party before for going too fast even though the party exhibited no problems with keeping up, nor expressed any desire for me to slow down.

I'm sure as hell not going to bother asking every single dungeon I tank for how fast they'd like me to go. Most people never talk at all in the DF, so a lot of the time I may as well be talking to a wall. I'm just going to go with what I think is a suitable pace, considering the party's stats, competence, my comfort level, and the comfort level of anyone that actually speaks up (such as if someone says they are new to the dungeon/role). If you don't like that, tank the dungeon yourself. That's really all there is to it.

Like I said, maybe such change would put bad tanks back in their proper place

I'm starting to think the only person here trying to place tanks on a pedestal here is you.

You spanked, you tank it... and you are getting kicked immediately after for not doing your job and will have to wait for another party to fulfill your personal Bossy Tank RP needs.

Again, I don't care, because I'll get parties fast. Most non-tanks don't actually try to dictate pulls for the tank either, so in all likelihood I'll have no trouble getting the content cleared with the next group, quite possibly while you are still waiting on a replacement.

Maybe, just maybe, after the non-tank pullers kick enough tanks that don't capitulate to their heavy handed ways, they'll eventually realize it's actually them that are the problem.
Kinda doubt it though.

[kidalutz]

Nah, that would be consistent.

After all, hypocrisy is the name of the game.

"Everyone's enjoyment matters...unless it's the tank, screw them lol"

"Work harder slave! *Whips tank*"

"Stop dying to the healer not being able to keep up with incoming damage! Everything is your fault tank! Even if you did nothing wrong it's still your fault because we say so!"

I tank heal and DPS and I will say theres only been a few times when keeping up with damage is an issue interestingly enough all of those times stem to the tank that never uses CDs if they mass pull. like seriously... as a tank I've died to healers not paying attention to anything outside of DPS and as DPS I've used aggro mitigation left and right and still took aggro away either doign AoE or my rotation bottom line is nobody is as good as they think they are. You will run into dps who can only single target rotation you will run into bad tanks and bad healers its a mixed bag. but one thing is certain if you cant relax and realise its just a dungeoun they will go fast or they will go slow then you probably should be taking an extended break from playing because just like real life nothing will ever go according to plan.

[Aurelius2625]

If some low IQ individuals kicked me from the DF because of my playstyle, they'll probably talking about how I'm a "shit tank" or "idiot tank" or "OH MY GAWD NARUTOSLAYER, YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS TANK THEY WERE SO DUM LOLOLOLOL XD XD XD !~!!@!~@!~@!@!@!@!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@##$" In their discord or FC chat.

I'm sure it happens all of the time. My revenge is to not be like them, to DF parties or in PF as much as I can avoid it.

And at the end of the day, I'm way sexier than they are, and my glams are on point. :P

[Kaedan]

No, it is not okay to pull for the slow tank. And no, there is never a situation where it's acceptable.

The tank knows what they are capable of and comfortable with. All pulling extra will do is either piss off your tank or make them panic. In the case of the former, most pissed off tanks will just let the mob kill you. "You pull it, you tank it" is the general consensus.

In the case of the latter, the tank could lose control of the mobs altogether while they are panicking, and there's a good chance of a wipe.

If people are THAT impatient and inconsiderate that they can't let the tank pull at their own pace, then you have a choice: leave, offer friendly and non-aggressive advice, or attempt to kick the tank and wait for a new one.

The only objectively correct choice is offering friendly, non-aggressive advice. Leaving makes zero logical sense because you'd never get a new queue to pop and finish the dungeon before the "slow tank" finishes. Kicking the tank also makes zero logical sense, because it's guaranteed you'd spend more time waiting for a new tank to join than you would lose just working with the slow tank.

[Mistyregions]

If some low IQ individuals kicked me from the DF because of my playstyle, they'll probably talking about how I'm a "shit tank" or "idiot tank" or "OH MY GAWD NARUTOSLAYER, YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS TANK THEY WERE SO DUM LOLOLOLOL XD XD XD !~!!@!~@!~@!@!@!@!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@##$" In their discord or FC chat.

I'm sure it happens all of the time. My revenge is to not be like them, to DF parties or in PF as much as I can avoid it.

And at the end of the day, I'm way sexier than they are, and my glams are on point. :P

This person adults

[Baka_Neko1]

The tank knows what they are capable of and comfortable with.

Do they really know what they're capable of? Or are they just worried that incoming damage that Regen alone won't heal is scary?