The fun in healer DPS

[EaMett]

You're also missing my point, which is that the fun in dpsing as a healer is balancing your healing/dps, not having multiple buttons to press. I would say the same thing about dps and tanks, if the dps and tanks were healers...

You're absolutely correct in saying that part of the fun is balancing healing and dps. Essentially what we're talking about here is optimizing healing to free up more downtime. Currently that downtime is spent DPSing. As such it wouldn't hurt to add a few more options in our DPS kit. Especially during dungeons. Both multitarget and single target would gain a lot of flow back from simply getting ED and shadowflare back in some form or another. Also fixing the potencies of Ruin II/Broil so that Ruin II becomes a good option for single weave.

[EaMett]

What about Miasma II? The only reason you would use it in single target is because it was better than Ruin II.
What about Shadowflare? Just an extra button you would press on cooldown with very few exceptions.

I've already said that ED is the only meaningful thing we lost.

We still have options for both healing uptime and downtime. You can still take risks.
"Fun is not spamming one button in a dungeon". But spamming one button with an occasional other button is? Because that's what we have at the moment.

So I'll reiterate. The fun is in balancing your DPS with healing, not in having several buttons that simply replace Broil in your basic rotation.

Ok lets be honest here.
We went from a single target dummy 3mn rotation of:

Shadowflare x3, Bio x6, Miasma x8, Miasma II x9, ED x13, Broil III x 50 (miasma II and ED subject to change based on the amount of healing required)
That's 15 opportunities to weave and 16 skills to weave

To this in 5.0:
Bio x6 , Broil x 70
That's 6 opportunities to weave and no skills to weave. If you replace ED with all healing skills (which lets be honest, you wouldn't in current ultimate, so you most likely won't during shb). You'll be clipping because those 6 opportunities won't be enough and Ruin II is only good for double weaving.

I'll say it again, you're oversimplifying.

Dungeons went from:

(Miasma, Bio) during pull, Shadowflare, Bane, Miasma II, ED miasma II, ED, etc.

to:

Bio during pull, AoW, AoW, etc.

This doesn't touch on AF management. We'll probably spam lustrate a bit for gauge which is silly (but you did say ED was a bad loss so that's covered)

If you don't see any difference in the above then I'm really happy for you. You have a lot to look forward to in ShB. I say this without any sarcasm.
I just don't understand how you can objectively expect other people to be as happy as you though. Most of us just want enough back to no longer clip our gcd or wait for the Bio gcd to roll with nothing to weave.

[Urthdigger]

My issue is less the changes themselves (I play WHM, the one least affected) and more the reason WHY that was given. I'm worried that they'll make further adjustments to remove DPS tools to try and "make me heal more" without knowing WHY I do so.

You're right that the number of buttons isn't necessarily what makes something fun, but maybe someone should tell SE that. Giving me healing tools won't make me heal more, I'll heal as the party requires it and beyond that there's no point.

I feel that we'll still continue to DPS with our limited kit and SE will look at that and think "...clearly we didn't do enough. Ok, now you have only one DPS spell but look, five more flavors of Cure II!"

[Elgeron]

Sure, that is why PLD make a big deal of being a 1-2-3 combo class in ARR, why DRK complain about "Dark Spam" and single combo, while part of the AST player base lament what they perceive as a dumbing down of the card system. Many of us don't find that very enganging. Hate to play AST before unlocking the card system, as the dps rotation is crap. Now SCH doesn't even have something like cards, and the fairy system seems more simple than ever.

Also, really? Another topic? Couldn't make your point in one of the other ten topics about Healers at the moment both in the healer section and General section.

[Urthdigger]

During the pull? You mean while running? Bio...?
And again, the Tank changes target, and messes up my Bane.
Weave a ground targeting ability?

Are you telling me SCH is a M&K only job?

I weave ground target stuff just fine. Make a <t> macro for it or get better at using your camera to position it.

[Seraphor]

I weave ground target stuff just fine. Make a <t> macro for it or get better at using your camera to position it.

This will be a moot point in three weeks.

[Seath]

I play SCH on a controller and pretty much done everything. Controller is fine with SCH.

[Ilyrian]

I play SCH on a controller and pretty much done everything. Controller is fine with SCH.

How do you ground target for aoe's like Shadowflare etc? Genuine question...Having to heal on a controller terrifies and intrigues me in equal measure!

[Seath]

How do you ground target for aoe's like Shadowflare etc? Genuine question...Having to heal on a controller terrifies and intrigues me in equal measure!

Someone mentioned issues with target target. I generally would not use marcos since it can cause targeting issues. Although having one for excog and E2E can be a QOL thing. For ground targeting there is a setting for controller ground targeting which puts the reticle in the center of the screen and you would just line up the middle point on the screen during your weaver spell. Basically camera aiming vs mouse aiming. You pan the camera on targeting for aoe and pet placement.