The reason we healers DPS

[braxberry]

Or heck, way back at the end of HW when there was an 8 tank clear of Zurvan Ex? Clearly, healer's main focus hasn't always been super necessary. IF that changes in SB2, I'll be thrilled. I'll heal as long as healing is necessary. But if you don't need HP, and I still have plenty of MP left, that's wasted potential. It's like the tanks that used STR back in HW; once you hit a threshold of HP, any more becomes unnecessary, and instead adding to the success of the clear through damage (because that's all we have in XIV), WHY. NOT. DO IT.

[CazzT]

As a healer, we currently have an incredibe amount of time where healing is not required. Would the party be better served by sitting there idling doing nothing, or perhaps using some of those DPS skills that are included with the job?

I'm not arguing that Healers should never DPS. There seems to be a misunderstanding there. I'm pointing out that it should not be expected, even that it's a double standard to expect it of Healers and not expect non-role actions from DPS and Tanks.

To expand on RDM (as it was brought up a few posts ago) - Most of their time should be spent DPSing, however if a clutch-heal or a raise can help save the party or prevent a wipe, they should most definitely use it.

I agree. And it's one of the rare cases where a DPS is expected to do something outside their role. But this is an exception to the rule (as the saying goes).

Something I haven't mentioned before now, because I have no doubt that it will result in "then why are you arguing", is that I do DPS on my healers. I'm pretty sure people think, because I'm saying Healers should not be expected to, that I'm not. And nowhere have I given the impression that I don't. I have said I play Healer to chill and relax, not to DPS. That is not saying I don't DPS on Healer, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was misinterpreted.

If a Healer is DPSing, cool deal. But expecting them to while not expecting DPS to tank or Tanks to heal is hypocritical.

[Aurturia]

Then what's the poor excuse for DPS not tanking? What's the poor excuse for Tanks not healing?

You know a good dps will generally try to pull mobs off a healer if they managed to get agro which basically means tanking them and all party members contribute to healing by mitigating and avoiding incoming damage to reduce the overall amount of healing needed. A tank barrier is no different from an adlo afterall.

[CazzT]

There is no double-standard. A healer has A LOT of downtime. Yes, a healer's top priority should be keeping the party alive and healthy, but when that is done you move onto your secondary skills (DPS).

And if you find me insulting, that is your own problem. You're either being incredibly obtuse on purpose, or perhaps there is just no point in continuing this conversation with you.

It is a double standard to expect one role to do non-role actions but not expecting any other role to do the same. That is the very definition of double standard.

Double standard: a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

You're being insulting by throwing insults. It's not my problem when you're the problem.

[CazzT]

You know a good dps will generally try to pull mobs off a healer if they managed to get agro which basically means tanking them and all party members contribute to healing by mitigating and avoiding incoming damage to reduce the overall amount of healing needed. A tank barrier is no different from an adlo afterall.

At the risk of going off topic.... Why is there a mob on the healer? What is the tank doing that allowed a mob to get on the healer in the first place? Adds that just spawned I can understand, but great tanks are on top of that and don't let that happen. But that's getting a little off topic...

[Aurturia]

At the risk of going off topic.... Why is there a mob on the healer? What is the tank doing that allowed a mob to get on the healer in the first place? Adds that just spawned I can understand, but great tanks are on top of that and don't let that happen. But that's getting a little off topic...

So tanks have to be great? Held to a higher standard? Never lose aggro, properly use cool downs and require minimal healing?

[Nerfworthy]

I like to make fights go faster. How do they go faster? With more DPS. I gladly DPS my heart out, mana withstanding, to make runs more efficient while still keeping everyone alive. Juggling the two is fun for me.

[CazzT]

So tanks have to be great? Held to a higher standard? Never lose aggro, properly use cool downs and require minimal healing?

Nothing you just said is even remotely what I said. Please don't twist or misrepresent what I wrote.

[Avidria]

I think this is the only mmorpg I've seen where a healer is expected to make dps a primary role, other games have dps on healers but even then it tends to fall off by max level to being mostly useless (because they need dps to level but not do dungeons/raids). If there's not enough to heal then that's a difficulty issue that needs addressed, because if you have that amount of free-time then the healing isn't challenging.

Fall into difficult conversations from there because even now I see healers struggle while others can dps, personally I think healing is just too easy in ffxiv and some just have trouble which is understandable.

Yeah this here is why I don't like healing in this game. If I'm playing a healer, it's because I want to heal. I don't want to have to dps to feel like I'm contributing. I will if I'm able, but I don't want to be spending more time dpsing than healing because then... why on Earth wouldn't I just play a dps instead?

I've spent less time playing healer in this mmo than in any other mmo, and it's for exactly this reason. I'd rather have healing be more challenging with less downtime than end up sitting there pushing damage numbers because lol nothin' else to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Skivvy]

I'm not arguing that Healers should never DPS. There seems to be a misunderstanding there. I'm pointing out that it should not be expected, even that it's a double standard to expect it of Healers and not expect non-role actions from DPS and Tanks.

Something I haven't mentioned before now, because I have no doubt that it will result in "then why are you arguing", is that I do DPS on my healers. I'm pretty sure people think, because I'm saying Healers should not be expected to, that I'm not. And nowhere have I given the impression that I don't. I have said I play Healer to chill and relax, not to DPS. That is not saying I don't DPS on Healer, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was misinterpreted.

If a Healer is DPSing, cool deal. But expecting them to while not expecting DPS to tank or Tanks to heal is hypocritical.

It is a double standard to expect one role to do non-role actions but not expecting any other role to do the same. That is the very definition of double standard. Double standard: a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

DPS are an offensive role with just about no down-time at all. As soon as a mob/pack is pulled, they're doing their rotations and that is about it. Of course each of those have some various support type skills (goad, pelaton, mana shift, raise, etc), and these should be used when appropriate.
Tanks are also an offensive role - activity pulling/controlling the crowds. They also have a pretty steady/constant rotation that they have to keep up while activity fighting.
Healers are on the defense and reactionary. If looking at healing skills only, we have no set rotation that we have to keep up in order to do our job well. There can be a of downtime with healing where as the other jobs do not have this luxury.

To be hyperbolic for a moment, should tanks and DPS start complaining about double-standards because they don't get to lounge around for half the fight like healers do? For better or worse, SE has designed healers and their content in such a way that gives healers a lot of idle time. I would expect any role to try and be as useful as possible to the party, and a healer that refuses to DPS is not doing that. To not require healers to be as effective as their role allows....I would say THAT is the double-standard.

For what it's worth, I'm in the camp that is quite excited to potentially have more actual healing in Shadowbringers. I tend to default to healing/support jobs in most games I play. I would be thrilled if the jobs in this game were fleshed out enough to let me just focus on that, with little time for anything else, but that is not how XIV currently works.