I need help understanding different personality types!

[Limonia]

I am one of those people who can just "drift off" as you call it. And it's not because I don't care or because I don't want to talk to anyone. But because (and I don't want to speak for anyone else with autism) for me personally, I "drift off" because I can get "sucked up" into my own little world, where all that exists is just me and whatever it is I'm doing. That "phase" can lasts for a few hours, a day, or on rare occassions, it can last weeks.

I know these kind of phases as well. During those times it's not that you don't care about others, but somehow you... sort of don't care about others anyway. It's complicated to explain. But your own interests or whatever are kind of "more important" for yourself than socializing during those moments, so that you forget about all the social stuff. And because I could never initiate a conversation anyway, it's even easier to "forget".
And it's even worse if you actually promised to reply to someone or something like that because you're then scared to talk to them because they could say something about not calling back earlier and it could maybe hurt you (even if it's a person you know that would never react like that), so talking to them gets even harder than it already is.
Oh, I'm so so bad at explaining, I hope you can understand what I mean.

Basically social anxiety makes chatting and talking very difficult. The anxiety part makes you see potential dangers where there aren't any, such as "what if the thing I say comes across as rude, or over-friendly, or stupid, or offensive" and in addition, you tend to be more sensitive to emotions so rejection or ridicule would hurt a lot more. It doesn't mean talking is impossible or that socially anxious people dislike talk or company in itself, it's just that it's difficult. This is a disorder, it's your brain being wired differently so while you can work on it, you can't just snap out of it or grow a thicker skin.

Not belonging isn't necessarily true, everyone belongs somewhere and can make friends, but it's easy to perceive it that way if you fall into the trap of thinking social interaction is an impossibility for you. Having that much struggle to simply chat to someone can be discouraging. Honestly it can be a bad habit sometimes, it's unhealthy to get too deep into an "everyone hates me" pool of self pity, you tend to push away those who care. It's not always the worst thing to point this out (just in a nice way, not an angry one). Even if they don't seem to listen, they can understand it.

OMG, this somehow describes me perfectly, I'm kind of surprised about it.

[JackHatchet]

Question! If people with autism are really good at doing homework/research/study. Is it possible for someone to devote the time into studying social interaction? Like, I get that it's difficult to pick it up 'naturally,' but could it be learned through intense study? And then the follow-up to that question is. Does that 'intense study' phase only apply to a subject the person is passionate about?
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It's funny reading what you've written here, as it comes across like you have a condition too

I might! I've never been tested for anything, but I also wouldn't spend the money to find out. I made it this far in life, lol.
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You've used the phrase "mental illness" to refer to autism a few times through this thread, but it's important to know that it's not really the right way to be describing it.

It's true that I tend to lump Autism in the same groups as depression and schizophrenia. I wouldn't really know what to clarify it as. I'm open to suggestions! But while I understand that people are happy and content with Autism. I get a vibe that a lot of people still suffer socially from it. And if the positives don't outweigh the negatives--then doesn't that make it an illness?

Additionally, just another way of thinking about it. I imagine if someone was born with a third-arm. It'd be a net positive, because three hands would be amazing. But it'd still be classified as a mutation. (which seems like a negative).
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I didn't touch on the Autism as an insult or the anti-vaxxers much in this post, becuase I've never met these people, and honestly, they're like flat-earthers to me. You hear about them on reddit and such, but they're like a myth! I do sympathize with people who have to deal with either group.
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Ahh, I wish I didn't work so much and I could respond to more people! I really am learning more. Last question for now! For those who get social anxiety and feel bad about hurting someone through broken promises or failed outings--do you guys consider methods of redemption? Ways to make it up to those people, or just drift away with sole focus on avoiding the mistake entirely?

I still don't like being lied to, and sometimes it feels like a lie when someone says they'll attend an event, or that they'll do something. And then they don't. False promise! I'm getting better at understanding that some people with social anxiety will back-out of situations, and I'm getting better at anticipating that, so I don't feel so deceived in the future. But I still really don't like being lied to. That's why I encourage the honestly. I just want a "I'll try," instead of "I'll be there." Because if they're worried about hurting my feelings by using a politicians promise (a maybe), then they'll hurt my feelings more by actually lying later, lol.

Sorry if this feels ranty! I'm getting all emotional. I want to understand more, but I'm conflicted by my feelings of being annoyed at past encounters where people bailed, and then seemingly had no remorse about it, and made no attempt to try and make amends. They just selfishly ran away or avoid the topic. How would I go about putting light onto the matter? I'm ok burying a hatchet. But I don't think it should be my sole responsibility to do it alone. I like to hash things out through communication. Anyways, enough ranting for now!

[Nedkel]

Terrible advice. Yes, people should be careful who they confide in, but I don't feel someone on the spectrum, or with any other disability, should feel obliged to say nothing and just hope nobody notices. Hiding who you are just to fit in isn't healthy for anyone (and that's assuming you succeed).
People with disabilities are as much a part of our community as those without and people need to accept that.

The thing is, if we are speaking about the internet as a whole, there are many different cultures around the europe/NA/world that tend to accept or not accept people with disabilities at all.
Not all nations are as kind and accepting as the west, a lot of players will cut themselves off from someone with autism because they just dont like them for some reasons.
Internet is a wild place afterall, its good advice to avoid telling strangers about disability, a person with autism or some other kind of mental illness could be abused easily by someone with dark intentions online.
Telling them to be wide open on the internet is asking for trouble.

[Nora_of_Mira]

I have to admit. I'm still confused! What's the difference between one person's kids, or one person's health issues? Aren't those both personal issues? I mean, kids are a big part of someone's life. They're not just a fluff topic like the weather. Is there a possible disconnect between discerning where the line is between fluff and personal?

most people that you are casually social with (coworkers, neighbors, people you run into playing this game,etc) GENERALLY don't want to know your personal details right off the bat, nor do they want to divulge their own personal details. "Kids" is generally accepted as casual small talk that MOST people can relate to, while personal health isn't. Imagine,

me: "Hows it going JackHatchet?"
you: "well I just went to doc and they said I have permanently-sweaty-knee-pits and Idk how im going to live like this"
me: "....big yikes"

the conversation between casual acquaintances (ie, not friends) pretty much ends right there. there is nothing I can really say that isnt a hard left turn from what you said that wont make everything worse.

So I would say, the line between fluff and personal is whether or not BOTH parties are willing to relate over something trivial/forgettable or confide in one another details that require more attention and understanding.

edit: i'm very socially anxious so take that how you will. Also, I love all your questions.

[Ceridwenae]

. Last question for now! For those who get social anxiety and feel bad about hurting someone through broken promises or failed outings--do you guys consider methods of redemption? Ways to make it up to those people, or just drift away with sole focus on avoiding the mistake entirely?

I still don't like being lied to, and sometimes it feels like a lie when someone says they'll attend an event, or that they'll do something. And then they don't. False promise! I'm getting better at understanding that some people with social anxiety will back-out of situations, and I'm getting better at anticipating that, so I don't feel so deceived in the future. But I still really don't like being lied to. That's why I encourage the honestly. I just want a "I'll try," instead of "I'll be there." Because if they're worried about hurting my feelings by using a politicians promise (a maybe), then they'll hurt my feelings more by actually lying later, lol.

Aww, Jack. You make me want to send you internet hugs and cookies.

I think I value honesty as much as you do! So I wouldn't make you a promise I couldn't keep. That said, it could be part of the problem when a person feels they can't say no (I used to be like this and it's gotten me into no end of bother) - if you've got such wonderful exuberance for, let's say running an extreme trial over and over and over to get a specific shiny, the anxious individual might also want this, but the constant attempts and the constant interactions it requires will be very tiring - it may even affect performance of the already anxious person, which then sucks for everyone. It's not that they want to let you down, it's just they've given what they can for that time, and now it's time to shut if all off and have peace away from it.

I have this with my husband to some extent: when he can be bothered to play, he tanks and will just constantly be in dungeons. He's awesome. I can do the roulettes with him, and that's about it. No more. Also, he gets all that juicy tank AIN bonus, the troll. And he's my husband and I love him to bits, but it takes so very much out of me to play so much in a row! I love that he can pull me through stuff I'd otherwise avoid, but he does not take it personally when he can see I'm starting to lag physically and mentally, and say I'm done. At the same time, I still feel I'm letting him down a bit because I've nagged at him to play the game more in first place! But we know how we each work, and we just adapt ourselves around it. Plus I'll make him cake and cups of tea in my game downtime (I like baking and lots of cups of tea!). He's happy, and really, so am I.

So, if you're doing stuff with people who have some kind of social anxiety, chances are they really don't want to hurt you. They just can't do it at the same pace, or if they do, it's in a much shorter time frame. If you were with them in person, and spent enough time, you might be able to pick up on when they start to flag. But you have to show you're open in a gentle way. Sometimes people who are quite extroverted can see way too much to handle, even if they're lovely people. I love the enthusiasm and the positivity, but sometimes it's so draining to be around. It's so loud and all I'd be wanting is peace, calm, tranquillity. And you don't mean to be like that or have that effect, but that's just how it is. It makes me think a bit of Tigger and Eeyore, though Eeyore's likely more depressed than socially anxious.

Please also note that anxiety is not rational, those of us with it know it's not rational, and that makes it doubly more difficult to deal with what others might consider every day normal stuff. It can also hit out of nowhere, but still, people will vary. Someone might have every intention of coming along to your event, but boom! they're hit with crippling anxiety and they're suddenly unable to come. They've not lied to you about wanting to come to the event, they really really wanted to, but a condition which is out of their control is being, shall we say, problematic in that one moment. They may be embarrassed to tell you this, so you might get some fluff reason. But it's not about you in that case.

It may be about you if you come across too strongly to the anxious person. For example, the other day, when you replied to my post and told me about falling under the thin skin thing: if you've done that to other socially anxious people, yeah, they may well run a mile from you. Your extrovert, dominant behaviour may be too much of a stimulus for the anxious person, who just wants a quiet space or calmness and no judging. It could cause them to retreat, and because they don't want to offend you, they won't tell you it is actually you at fault in that case - though you being yourself is not a fault - and so you get a what is effectively a lie. They will feel horrible for lying most likely, too.

So what you can do, if you wish to, is tone yourself down a little for those individuals. They will, if you let them, tone up a bit too, but it's probably difficult for both of you, and you could have some really rough days. Examine your own behaviour, and do a little mental role play putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Figure in the fact that socially anxious people need their space, and probably a lot more than you'd reckon on, so it's not that they want or need daily contact. Then follow that with sometimes friendship will still end up being one-sided, perhaps you're just not fated to be friends with that other person anyway, it's musical differences and we naturally have less friends as we grow older anyway. That's just how it is. You know, if you think someone is drifting away from you, maybe let them know you've recognised they need their space, and that your door is always open to them. I have friends I don't speak to for years, not least because I now live in a different country. They've known what I am for much longer than I have, bless them. I can write to them tomorrow, and it would be like no time has passed.

Oh, holy hell, I've gone and written too much again.

[Canth]

Stuff

I fully agree with everything you’ve said. I used to be an ESE Para, and I’m married to a man with ASD who’s been struggling his whole life with social interactions. However, he’s brilliant, kind, and the most helpful person I’ve ever met. Over the years he’s improved his social skills with a trial by fire (college student government, becoming a teacher), and he’s come out on top, with a lot of effort on his part.

This is not to say he’s mastered his differently-wired brain, but he’s coming close. Right now his biggest flaws I’d say is dealing with stress, and aversion to stepping out of his comfort zone. Game-related example is that he’s a phenomenal WHM, but has a harder time staying calm when shit hits the fan (I often co-heal with him for this reason), also he’s too scared to level AST because it’s different, and he doesn’t want to learn something new while also dealing with IRL stress (exam week, and now we’re moving).

I’m not sure where I was going with this anymore but I felt like I needed to comment. >_>

[Darus]

Hello hello! Been some interesting questions and comments going on here, and as I have been trained to be an advocate, I must answer these calls and teach more info!

JackHatchet asked if autism can learn social interaction with their interests - Of course! To a degree. I myself am proof of that (social science degrees all around!). And yet, the anxiety still can reign supreme on me some days and makes it hard to initiate contact (I've been rejected a lot in my younger days and never quite learned the core bits that are more or less impossible in this stage of brain development, stuff like that. I know better but the fear and anxiety hold me and I'm conscious of it as it happens). I am a social butterfly, once conversation and connections are started, but getting there is hard.

Ok, so to explain the issue of "mental illness" and "autism". See, the Psychiatrists (doctors), not to be confused with the psychologists (researchers) and counselors (direct helpers), decided to change how "autism" is listed. "Autism Spectrum Disorder" does not differentiate from difference autism type conditions - basically, asperger's syndrome doesn't exist in diagnosis except as reference, it's now "ASD". This made it easier to get insurance payouts for people with autistic conditions, or conditions of similar difficulties. So, "autism" means a VERY VERY broad field of problems now. A person who is mentally 4 years old for their whole life and a person who manages to build a warp engine are BOTH "autistic". Messed up right? That's the current diagnosis for a few years until we stop using the DSM 5 and move to a new model with autistic variants as their specific conditions.

Many with autism develop obsessions, it's specific and almost random. Mine was video game design but after my diagnosis I got lucky and got an obsession in autism itself. The falloff effect of that is this obsession includes knowing psychology, science, and all that stuff. Lucky for me.

The lucky ones with autism aren't as lucky either. Autism tends to lead to a slow mental growth. It doesn't stop, but it can be 10 years behind. I was probably 8 or so years behind by the time I finished high school and stayed a kid well until I hit 30, still am younger than my age even now. It can also cause intellect to increase. So, we now have an issue for the person. They may be 16 years old physically, hormones raging, mentally 8 and innocent as can be, but capable of doing graduate level education projects. Do we put them in special ed, and stunt their potential?, or in advance studies and watch them die socially without any support? It's a chaotic state of being and people with autism may have a suicide rate of 30 times the normal rate. Many of the non suicidal may die from lack of self care due to having miserable lonely lives that don't allow them to use their obsessions and potential or form meaningful relationships.
Honestly, the "problem" with autism is based on society. Proper understanding and programs would mean they could learn at a rate matching their chaotic identity and negate the lack of social growth to a hefty degree. Preventing rejection and promoting the obsession can lead to outrageously capable experts. Autism has always been around and it has benefits as well as deficits. It's most likely a natural occurrence to promote advancement and specialists within the human race.

If vaccines cause autism, then we need to find more vaccines to give to people.

[JackHatchet]

Oh, holy hell, I've gone and written too much again.

You can post as much as you'd want, and I'd always read it!

I did notice a bit of "to each their own" with my ex. She had schizophrenia, depression, and social anxiety (all diagnosed). And it was incredibly challenging to balance our relationship around her lows and my highs. Eventually we separated in a healthy way. So when I got back into the dating game. I made sure to find someone who had the same highs as I did. I love the whole dating experience, and the amount of learning involved. It's amazing how much you can learn about someone else, but mostly about oneself just by being shoved into so many crazy situations.

My current wife and I don't always share the same playstyles in-game. She'll farm for doggos over and over again. And I absolutely loathe the idea of dedicating time to a mount I'll never use. So often we compromise a bit and I'll run 5-10 rounds with her. Or othertimes we literally do entirely different things while enjoying the same game. Those couples who are 'glued at the hip' confuse me beyond words too, lol. My wife and I are both fiercely independent, and it works great for us.

Tigger is certainly a creature I can relate to. ^.~ In more modern TV, I tend to tell people that I'm like Mr. Peanutbutter from Bojack Horseman. And OMG did I relate to the whole 'mayor' arc. The Diane girl reminds me of my ex, lol... But people like Mr. Peanut Butter and myself just struggle to contain ourselves. My wife sometimes just rolls her eyes when I open my mouth on the internet. But that's part of the package she accepted when we got together.

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One of my things with honestly that I'm working with. IS that I absolutely appreciate it when people open up with the truth that they have autism, or something like social anxiety. Because in the past if someone ditched me--I'd think they lied to me. But if they've admitted to having social anxiety. I try my best to give them the benefit of the doubt if I know there's a valid reason (like having anxiety). "Oh yeah, they don't like social situations, so maybe they're sitting this one out. Maybe I should text them and reaffirm that it's cool. I get it!" I mean, I don't really get it. But I understand that social anxiety equals 'might not show.'

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For example, the other day, when you replied to my post and told me about falling under the thin skin thing

I feel like a jerk for not recognizing your name. Normally, I tend to gloss over names online unless I've had a few repeat encounters or begin to build a more stable friendship. But it might also be because I socialize with an extraordinaire amount of people on a daily basis that it becomes harder to remember different names sometimes. Maybe it's a quirk.

[JackHatchet]

Hello hello! Been some interesting questions and comments going on here, and as I have been trained to be an advocate, I must answer these calls and teach more info!

I have another question!

I noticed with depression. Or the people around me who have depression. Couples where both people with depression end up being a massive negative spiral downward. Where one person needs help, and the other person needs help too. So they both make it worse for each other. Where as in more normal relationships (sorry, I don't have a better word). Couples tend to balance it out better. When one is weak--the other one tends to be stronger, and they compensate and balance out. If John is having a bad day--then Jane can overexert herself a bit to compensate, and vice versa. But with depression, I've seen a few times where if Joe is having a bad day--Jane is constantly depressed and is never able to be strong when Joe needs it, and it always seems like a massive drag. Very very rarely have I seen double-depression couples where they actually counter-balance really well. That one would always be on a high when the other is low, and they rotated in a healthy way.

So my question to you! Do double-autism couples struggle to mesh. Or would autistic people have a stronger understanding of other autistic people and share a stronger form of empathy?

One of the things I'm trying to understand still, is that I hear a lot how Autistic people drift into their own worlds, or they become incredibly dedicated to their hobbies, or such. Basically, that they can be incredibly selfish. Are they able to counter balance that? Would two autistic people get along together well, or would they always be too demanding of the other and feel drained?

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I know that sounded kinda off-topic. I know my ex struggled with a lot of mental-illnesses, and a big hurdle we struggled with was finding balance. The right give and take. Not only between us as a couple, but also between us and the world. Finding a balance between what we can reasonable demand from society, while also counterbalancing it with what we can give back.

Now what you said is absolutely true about a lot of Autistic (and schizophrenics) becoming incredibly intelligent people who give back to society through science. But what are some of the values they can give back socially for those who don't have a scientific inclination?

[AngelCheese77]

They should stop sharing their story with strangers on the internet, so healthy ones will stop judging them over their disability and not ostracise them because of it.

Yes they are a part of a community. And no, noone is obliged to accept that.

Wow, case in point here. Non accepting person. An example of someone who can't accept those who are different than them.

Question! If people with autism are really good at doing homework/research/study. Is it possible for someone to devote the time into studying social interaction? Like, I get that it's difficult to pick it up 'naturally,' but could it be learned through intense study? And then the follow-up to that question is. Does that 'intense study' phase only apply to a subject the person is passionate about?

If started early enough I don't see why not. Sadly with my husbnad, his mother took the "medicate until no one notices" approach. He's 45 now .. only learned about his Spectrum diagnosis at 43. His family never taught him about it or how to work with it. They covered it up behind medication so he looked and acted "normal".

For those who get social anxiety and feel bad about hurting someone through broken promises or failed outings--do you guys consider methods of redemption? Ways to make it up to those people, or just drift away with sole focus on avoiding the mistake entirely?

I drift away, then beat myself up years later after the fact when I can't do anything about it.

Now, my husband does tell people he has Aspergers/Spectrum Disorder. Why? See case in point on medication. He also finds it helps to explain why he did X thing or Y thing, and why his wife (me) stepped up and gently said something to him.