I need help understanding different personality types!

[Wilford111]

I think it's much more of the fact you are clearly belittling the discrimination and societal hardship autistic people face.

Shame on you for assuming that that is what OP is doing.

[Nedkel]

They should stop sharing their story with strangers on the internet, so healthy ones will stop judging them over their disability and not ostracise them because of it.

That way if they experience something bad from people it will not be as bad as thinking that someone is hostile to them because of their autism which they told him about.
People take internet too seriously, you supposed to be anonymous here and just troll around.

[JackHatchet]

Dang, there are some good responses while I was at work today. I'm impressed!

I guess my thing with small talk, is that I tend to view small talk as anything that's not 'objective' based. For example. Talking business, setting up a raid night, or dealing with FC management isn't small talk, because communication is just a means to an end. It's an important part of the process.

So to me, small talk is basically any form of talk that's not relevant to doing something. Talking about the weather. Talking about kids. Talking about someone's personal life. Talking about someone's health issues could easily just be small talk. It's just talk to fill the time. Unless you're talking personal problems trying to find a solution to a problem--then it's like business talk! I guess that's confusing, lol.

So my next question is. For those who dislike small talk. Do you bring it up when someone tries to have small talk? Do you mention that you don't get it or understand it? Do you try to explain your position, or do you just tend to ignore someone or blow off the conversation with as few words as possible? I think that's kind of something that would feel like 'lying to me' in a way? If someone wanted to be social. And I reach out, and they don't like small talk, but they don't tell me. But blow me off or act very dismissive. And when asked why they're dimissive--they're elusive. I feel like that's deception. And I don't like it. I like it when people are honest. I can help overcome obstacles if I know what the obstacles are.

Small talk is often used to just get a feeling of the situation. But if one person is being deceptive--it can make reading the situation a billion times harder. Which is why I tend to be incredibly adamant about the importance of honesty. I mentioned my ex with schizoprhenia a few times in this post (and another). And one of her biggest issues was that she has 'southern pride' which meant she'd often be deceptive in showing her concerns, because she was embarrassed. And while it can sometimes be possible to 'guess' when someone has anxiety and/or embarassed, or other social difficulties--I think it's incredibly unfair to rely on the other person to make those assumptions when forcing someone to make assumptions is like leading them to a minefield. Sometimes you get it right, but way too often it ends up making things worse. Which is why I get that some people distance themselves from those kinds of situations.

So I want to learn how to breach the gap with some of these people, so that they don't feel so isolated. But I struggle in the 'how.'

[JackHatchet]

Allow me to provide ample insight on the "condition" known as autism. As for my credentials - I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, under the umbrella of Autism Spectrum Disorder, 10 years ago when I was 23 and this led me into the field of psychology and immediately obtained my Bachelors degree in the field and am now getting my Masters in counseling where I frequently use autism as the subject matter of papers. Needless to say, I have a relation to and knowledge on the condition.

First off, I want to thank you for your post. It was well worth reading!

Secondly, I had no freaking clue that autism was that common. I thought it was like a 1 in 10,000 thing. It's just never been an issue at all in my life. At least not that I'm aware of. None of my family, nor my friends have every been diagnosed with autism. So my exposure to autism (and mental-illness) has been extremely lacking. Heck, I didn't even know depression was a legitimate thing until in my 20's when I went through the learning process of why "telling them to just feel better" wasn't a viable solution. Because honestly, if you've never exposed to that stuff, and you only know normal--it can be a challenge to understand different. And unfortunately, people can be extremely critical when asking questions. As was seen in some of the earlier comments in this thread.

I guess if there's any part of me that wants to rant about something. Because it's not all about learning, although that's the part I appreciate the most. As an extreme extrovert. Anytime I want to feel accepted or participate. I eagerly force my way into a situation. And that's my normal. So it's incredibly challenging for me to comprehend people who feel neglected or left out. I know people want to feel accepted. But I've never been the kind of person to seek acceptance. Rather--I do me (being an extreme extrovert), and acceptance has just been part of the package. So when I see people wish for acceptance. I don't quite know how to give it to them. I'm willing to be anyone's friend, but they have to meet me half way. And If they don't. I just assume they're doing other things, and I let them move on.

But because I only know me. I often get stuck in the trap of just assuming people are as ambitious, social, or extroverted as me. So I don't always recognize when they need a helping hand. For example initiating conversation. If I want something--I'll just boldly blurt it out (like this forum post). I wanted to know something, and so I asked. Even though I knew people would think I was a troll. I just HAD to know, so acted the way I act.

And a lot of times I think other people will do that. And when they don't initiate. I often mistake their failure to initiate as a purposeful action. As in they chose not to initiate because they were bored, didn't care. Or just had no desire for a conversation. I struggle to remember that 'they want to, but are held back." Because man, I'll gladly extend a bridge. But I can't always read people, and I've learned the hard way too many times that imposing just makes people angry!

[Ceridwenae]

But because I only know me. I often get stuck in the trap of just assuming people are as ambitious, social, or extroverted as me. So I don't always recognize when they need a helping hand. For example initiating conversation. If I want something--I'll just boldly blurt it out (like this forum post). I wanted to know something, and so I asked. Even though I knew people would think I was a troll. I just HAD to know, so acted the way I act.

Don't make the mistake of thinking if someone is introverted (if we're using that intro vs extro analogy) that they're not social; as in, don't mistake introversion for shyness. I'm a really sociable person, one-on-one, but only if they take a heap of time to get to know me well. If I get to know people one-on-one first, and then there's grouping up - say for a dungeon if you will - it's great! I will likely have a lot of fun. Otherwise, it's just hell. I also will need solo time in amongst that, because the interactions take an emotional toll. It's hard work, it's not that I don't want to do it (though some days it is that too, because we all have those days), it just comes from a different place.

It's funny reading what you've written here, as it comes across like you have a condition too (social anxiety cue: please don't take that the wrong way!). If you take that bit where you're saying you don't recognise when someone needs a helping hand, or mistaking the lack of conversation starters for disinterest, you could flip it on its head and perhaps you'll start to understand why, say, someone like me (social anxiety), doesn't get your behaviour either. Though, it will vary from person to person.

I think it's very much worth your time to read some decent peer-reviewed medical papers on this stuff in your leisure time. A framework of understanding, if you will, a bedrock to build upon then (which is where the anecdotes you've asked for will help fill in gaps). And bugger me, this thunderstorm is ridiculous, and though I'd love to write you six pages more and gabber about social interactions all day, I should probably go. I may edit later if it feels necessary.

Quickly though! I'm proud of you for starting this topic. The more people seek to expand their knowledge in this way, the better.

[NoirRen]

There are much better places to seek help than an MMO's forum. How does this pertain to FFXIV at all?

Well we at some point had "share your disability" thread and "I have mental disorder and ppl kicks me out of group content" thread on the first page at the same time.
So for some players it's a an important matter.

[xLucia]

This is just me, but it's not so much that I "drift away" from people. It's more that I really really suck at small talk. Unless I have something to say or talk about, I don't talk with people. Small talk is hard for me as most of the time I just don't care for it.

Also, in general, people with autism find conversing hard. We tend to not grasp social norms or non-verbal cues. We can ramble on and on and not realize the other person has tuned out or wants us to shut up. We tend to "over share" information. Subtlety is hard to grasp, as can be sarcasm. Our brains work and process stuff differently than those without autism, which is why we're seen as "weird." This causes us to be ostracized from others and, most of the time, bullied in school. Most of us WANT to make friends, we just find it very hard to. And that's not even including the emotional/mental stuff that can come with it, which I won't get in to.

Anyway, I'll hush up for now. Autism is different from person to person, but this is how it is for me. Others may be different.

Jup... All true. I only talk when I actually have something to say that I think is worth saying X_x I do join in with small talk when I'm in the mood for it, but I wouldn't normally start such talk myself. And don't even get me started on sarcasm. I fall for it every time because I take many things that are said literally ^^'

Edit: to the OP, it would be really hard to really understand to be honest, because everyone with autism is so different. I am one of those people who can just "drift off" as you call it. And it's not because I don't care or because I don't want to talk to anyone. But because (and I don't want to speak for anyone else with autism) for me personally, I "drift off" because I can get "sucked up" into my own little world, where all that exists is just me and whatever it is I'm doing. That "phase" can lasts for a few hours, a day, or on rare occassions, it can last weeks. Hell sometimes it's so bad that I literally forget to eat or sleep. And most of the time I don't even realise I'm doing it until someone snaps me out of it (this is based on my own experience, atleast)

I'll give you an example for this; When I was in college, in a full classroom with people chatting and laughing and what not, I was so focussed on doing my homework that eventually I completely blocked out all of that noise. At one point, my classmate, who sat next to me, was calling, and eventually sorta yelling my name like 7 times (or so she told me) And I didn't react. At all. She had to literally push my shoulder to get my attention. I don't even remember her saying my name. I "snapped out" once she touched me. And then she was like "dude, I called your name like 7 times, where were you?"

[Solarra]

They should stop sharing their story with strangers on the internet, so healthy ones will stop judging them over their disability and not ostracise them because of it.

Terrible advice. Yes, people should be careful who they confide in, but I don't feel someone on the spectrum, or with any other disability, should feel obliged to say nothing and just hope nobody notices. Hiding who you are just to fit in isn't healthy for anyone (and that's assuming you succeed).
People with disabilities are as much a part of our community as those without and people need to accept that.

[NoirRen]

People with disabilities are as much a part of our community as those without and people need to accept that.

Yes they are a part of a community. And no, noone is obliged to accept that.

[Iscah]

mental-illness

You've used the phrase "mental illness" to refer to autism a few times through this thread, but it's important to know that it's not really the right way to be describing it. An illness suggests something that is affecting the person and needs to be cured so they can get better. Autism is an inherent part of a person's personality, and not even necessarily disabling.

I have Asperger's. It's part of me and how I think. If you could somehow turn it off, I wouldn't be quite the same person any more.

There are 2 types of autism from what I know. Speaking and Intelligence. For example, a neighbor of my sister in law has 2 sons. Both with autism. One does not speak, just using grunts and hand gestures. The other speaks but is still very "childlike" in intelligence, speaking out and saying inappropriate things.

That's essentially (at a child level, at least) the difference that used to be made between "autism" (the non-communicative type) and "Asperger's Syndrome" (better-functioning but doesn't get social skills), though classification has changed and it's all labeled autism now.

Asperger's people just don't naturally "get" social skills in the same way most people do. Things have to be explained to them, and they have to actively learn what others naturally pick up: Make eye contact. Ask people how they are. Don't interrupt people when they're talking, even if you really want to say something.

That's the important thing. Helping them learn how they need to behave, because they're not necessarily going to work it out for themselves.

I don't think people mentioning that they're autistic is a burden. However, I'll admit that when people say "I tend to conflict with my community." It causes me to raise an eye-brow. "why is that?" And to me. I just don't see it. Like I said. I've played with a few autistic people. In FC, or in my static, or just folks I run maps with regularly. But I don't see any of the negativity. So when you say there's discrimination--I don't follow. I'll admit that when they first approached me and said "hey, things might be sketchy" that I was concerned. But through the follow-up--I never found any of those concerns to be validated.

I feel like the understanding of autism is shifting, and not necessarily in a good way. It's why I argued in that other (thoroughly more bitter) conversation that it's a bad thing that "autistic" is being used as a generalised insult - the real meaning of the term gets lost, and people start to think that it's a term for people who are antisocial and don't get along well with others. (And then possibly they self-diagnose as what they think is autistic, without really understanding it, and spread the impression further by telling everyone they've got it.)

Of course you can't go demanding proof that someone has clinically-diagnosed autism and hasn't just self-diagnosed off the Internet. But if someone just insists "I can't help being antisocial and not getting along with people because I have Asperger's"... that's not true at all. It makes it harder, but it's still up to you, your personality and how you choose to treat people. It just takes more active work.


Bonus question to others reading this: if you have Aspergers/autism, do you tell people? Personally I wouldn't ever bring it up unless it's relevant or I was directly asked. I'd rather stay quiet than make a big deal of it. Obviously I can't judge everyone's behaviour off mine, but I get a gut feeling that maybe the people who are eager to announce they have it might be the ones who don't really understand what it is.


Also, on realising whether people have it or not - when you're on an Internet forum you're going to be missing a lot of the cues that might mark someone as autistic: lack of eye contact, perhaps an odd way of speaking, talks at length on their favourite subject and misses your subtle clues that you're not interested... none of that applies here, and the awkwardness of social interaction doesn't carry over to carefully-thought-out text.

I think what bothers me the most is when the two issues you mentioned are combined. I don't like when people say "everyone hates me,' but will refuse to initiate conversation with me. Even if I start with some small-talk. It just kinda dissipates into a non-conversation. I don't hate anyone. I'll talk about anything. I'm a social butterfly extrovert.

I guess my thing with small talk, is that I tend to view small talk as anything that's not 'objective' based. For example. Talking business, setting up a raid night, or dealing with FC management isn't small talk, because communication is just a means to an end. It's an important part of the process.

So to me, small talk is basically any form of talk that's not relevant to doing something. Talking about the weather. Talking about kids. Talking about someone's personal life. Talking about someone's health issues could easily just be small talk. It's just talk to fill the time. Unless you're talking personal problems trying to find a solution to a problem--then it's like business talk! I guess that's confusing, lol.

What sort of "small talk" are you trying to start with? Being asked to talk about myself to a stranger is awkward, and I'd most likely give minimal answers hoping you'll move onto something else - and I won't ask the same questions back to you, because (1) I feel funny asking people questions like that, especially when I'm not really interested in the answer, and (2) having asked that, I either have to remember it for next time, or risk looking rude because I asked and then didn't remember. (My mum asks those sorts of questions. I think she remembers everyone's answers in the same brain space that mine uses for memorising game information.)

Talk about something specific that interests them, and they might be more willing to engage. And don't expect them to want to have a one-on-one conversation "just because" - if this is within the game, and it's someone in your FC, just make sure they're included and have the chance to join in on conversations if they want. If it's a real-world friend, much the same applies - make them part of the group, but don't expect them to directly engage in conversation if they don't want to. Let them join in when they have something to say and feel comfortable doing so. (Don't avoid talking to them, just don't feel like you have to for the sake of filling up a silence.)

If the conversation is about something they're interested in or knowledgable about, they're likely to join in and contribute. They can be excellent sources of knowledge about the game, or whatever else is their topic of interest, and may be eager to help explain things to people if asked. They just need the right kind of opportunity to join in.