I need help understanding different personality types!

[JackHatchet]

Question! If people with autism are really good at doing homework/research/study. Is it possible for someone to devote the time into studying social interaction? Like, I get that it's difficult to pick it up 'naturally,' but could it be learned through intense study? And then the follow-up to that question is. Does that 'intense study' phase only apply to a subject the person is passionate about?
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It's funny reading what you've written here, as it comes across like you have a condition too

I might! I've never been tested for anything, but I also wouldn't spend the money to find out. I made it this far in life, lol.
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You've used the phrase "mental illness" to refer to autism a few times through this thread, but it's important to know that it's not really the right way to be describing it.

It's true that I tend to lump Autism in the same groups as depression and schizophrenia. I wouldn't really know what to clarify it as. I'm open to suggestions! But while I understand that people are happy and content with Autism. I get a vibe that a lot of people still suffer socially from it. And if the positives don't outweigh the negatives--then doesn't that make it an illness?

Additionally, just another way of thinking about it. I imagine if someone was born with a third-arm. It'd be a net positive, because three hands would be amazing. But it'd still be classified as a mutation. (which seems like a negative).
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I didn't touch on the Autism as an insult or the anti-vaxxers much in this post, becuase I've never met these people, and honestly, they're like flat-earthers to me. You hear about them on reddit and such, but they're like a myth! I do sympathize with people who have to deal with either group.
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Ahh, I wish I didn't work so much and I could respond to more people! I really am learning more. Last question for now! For those who get social anxiety and feel bad about hurting someone through broken promises or failed outings--do you guys consider methods of redemption? Ways to make it up to those people, or just drift away with sole focus on avoiding the mistake entirely?

I still don't like being lied to, and sometimes it feels like a lie when someone says they'll attend an event, or that they'll do something. And then they don't. False promise! I'm getting better at understanding that some people with social anxiety will back-out of situations, and I'm getting better at anticipating that, so I don't feel so deceived in the future. But I still really don't like being lied to. That's why I encourage the honestly. I just want a "I'll try," instead of "I'll be there." Because if they're worried about hurting my feelings by using a politicians promise (a maybe), then they'll hurt my feelings more by actually lying later, lol.

Sorry if this feels ranty! I'm getting all emotional. I want to understand more, but I'm conflicted by my feelings of being annoyed at past encounters where people bailed, and then seemingly had no remorse about it, and made no attempt to try and make amends. They just selfishly ran away or avoid the topic. How would I go about putting light onto the matter? I'm ok burying a hatchet. But I don't think it should be my sole responsibility to do it alone. I like to hash things out through communication. Anyways, enough ranting for now!

[Ceridwenae]

. Last question for now! For those who get social anxiety and feel bad about hurting someone through broken promises or failed outings--do you guys consider methods of redemption? Ways to make it up to those people, or just drift away with sole focus on avoiding the mistake entirely?

I still don't like being lied to, and sometimes it feels like a lie when someone says they'll attend an event, or that they'll do something. And then they don't. False promise! I'm getting better at understanding that some people with social anxiety will back-out of situations, and I'm getting better at anticipating that, so I don't feel so deceived in the future. But I still really don't like being lied to. That's why I encourage the honestly. I just want a "I'll try," instead of "I'll be there." Because if they're worried about hurting my feelings by using a politicians promise (a maybe), then they'll hurt my feelings more by actually lying later, lol.

Aww, Jack. You make me want to send you internet hugs and cookies.

I think I value honesty as much as you do! So I wouldn't make you a promise I couldn't keep. That said, it could be part of the problem when a person feels they can't say no (I used to be like this and it's gotten me into no end of bother) - if you've got such wonderful exuberance for, let's say running an extreme trial over and over and over to get a specific shiny, the anxious individual might also want this, but the constant attempts and the constant interactions it requires will be very tiring - it may even affect performance of the already anxious person, which then sucks for everyone. It's not that they want to let you down, it's just they've given what they can for that time, and now it's time to shut if all off and have peace away from it.

I have this with my husband to some extent: when he can be bothered to play, he tanks and will just constantly be in dungeons. He's awesome. I can do the roulettes with him, and that's about it. No more. Also, he gets all that juicy tank AIN bonus, the troll. And he's my husband and I love him to bits, but it takes so very much out of me to play so much in a row! I love that he can pull me through stuff I'd otherwise avoid, but he does not take it personally when he can see I'm starting to lag physically and mentally, and say I'm done. At the same time, I still feel I'm letting him down a bit because I've nagged at him to play the game more in first place! But we know how we each work, and we just adapt ourselves around it. Plus I'll make him cake and cups of tea in my game downtime (I like baking and lots of cups of tea!). He's happy, and really, so am I.

So, if you're doing stuff with people who have some kind of social anxiety, chances are they really don't want to hurt you. They just can't do it at the same pace, or if they do, it's in a much shorter time frame. If you were with them in person, and spent enough time, you might be able to pick up on when they start to flag. But you have to show you're open in a gentle way. Sometimes people who are quite extroverted can see way too much to handle, even if they're lovely people. I love the enthusiasm and the positivity, but sometimes it's so draining to be around. It's so loud and all I'd be wanting is peace, calm, tranquillity. And you don't mean to be like that or have that effect, but that's just how it is. It makes me think a bit of Tigger and Eeyore, though Eeyore's likely more depressed than socially anxious.

Please also note that anxiety is not rational, those of us with it know it's not rational, and that makes it doubly more difficult to deal with what others might consider every day normal stuff. It can also hit out of nowhere, but still, people will vary. Someone might have every intention of coming along to your event, but boom! they're hit with crippling anxiety and they're suddenly unable to come. They've not lied to you about wanting to come to the event, they really really wanted to, but a condition which is out of their control is being, shall we say, problematic in that one moment. They may be embarrassed to tell you this, so you might get some fluff reason. But it's not about you in that case.

It may be about you if you come across too strongly to the anxious person. For example, the other day, when you replied to my post and told me about falling under the thin skin thing: if you've done that to other socially anxious people, yeah, they may well run a mile from you. Your extrovert, dominant behaviour may be too much of a stimulus for the anxious person, who just wants a quiet space or calmness and no judging. It could cause them to retreat, and because they don't want to offend you, they won't tell you it is actually you at fault in that case - though you being yourself is not a fault - and so you get a what is effectively a lie. They will feel horrible for lying most likely, too.

So what you can do, if you wish to, is tone yourself down a little for those individuals. They will, if you let them, tone up a bit too, but it's probably difficult for both of you, and you could have some really rough days. Examine your own behaviour, and do a little mental role play putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Figure in the fact that socially anxious people need their space, and probably a lot more than you'd reckon on, so it's not that they want or need daily contact. Then follow that with sometimes friendship will still end up being one-sided, perhaps you're just not fated to be friends with that other person anyway, it's musical differences and we naturally have less friends as we grow older anyway. That's just how it is. You know, if you think someone is drifting away from you, maybe let them know you've recognised they need their space, and that your door is always open to them. I have friends I don't speak to for years, not least because I now live in a different country. They've known what I am for much longer than I have, bless them. I can write to them tomorrow, and it would be like no time has passed.

Oh, holy hell, I've gone and written too much again.

[JackHatchet]

Oh, holy hell, I've gone and written too much again.

You can post as much as you'd want, and I'd always read it!

I did notice a bit of "to each their own" with my ex. She had schizophrenia, depression, and social anxiety (all diagnosed). And it was incredibly challenging to balance our relationship around her lows and my highs. Eventually we separated in a healthy way. So when I got back into the dating game. I made sure to find someone who had the same highs as I did. I love the whole dating experience, and the amount of learning involved. It's amazing how much you can learn about someone else, but mostly about oneself just by being shoved into so many crazy situations.

My current wife and I don't always share the same playstyles in-game. She'll farm for doggos over and over again. And I absolutely loathe the idea of dedicating time to a mount I'll never use. So often we compromise a bit and I'll run 5-10 rounds with her. Or othertimes we literally do entirely different things while enjoying the same game. Those couples who are 'glued at the hip' confuse me beyond words too, lol. My wife and I are both fiercely independent, and it works great for us.

Tigger is certainly a creature I can relate to. ^.~ In more modern TV, I tend to tell people that I'm like Mr. Peanutbutter from Bojack Horseman. And OMG did I relate to the whole 'mayor' arc. The Diane girl reminds me of my ex, lol... But people like Mr. Peanut Butter and myself just struggle to contain ourselves. My wife sometimes just rolls her eyes when I open my mouth on the internet. But that's part of the package she accepted when we got together.

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One of my things with honestly that I'm working with. IS that I absolutely appreciate it when people open up with the truth that they have autism, or something like social anxiety. Because in the past if someone ditched me--I'd think they lied to me. But if they've admitted to having social anxiety. I try my best to give them the benefit of the doubt if I know there's a valid reason (like having anxiety). "Oh yeah, they don't like social situations, so maybe they're sitting this one out. Maybe I should text them and reaffirm that it's cool. I get it!" I mean, I don't really get it. But I understand that social anxiety equals 'might not show.'

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For example, the other day, when you replied to my post and told me about falling under the thin skin thing

I feel like a jerk for not recognizing your name. Normally, I tend to gloss over names online unless I've had a few repeat encounters or begin to build a more stable friendship. But it might also be because I socialize with an extraordinaire amount of people on a daily basis that it becomes harder to remember different names sometimes. Maybe it's a quirk.

[Ceridwenae]

I feel like a jerk for not recognizing your name...

It's absolutely fine. The thing is, on forums, I'm nowhere near as anxious as I am "in person" if you will, and I have a lot more time to roll with the punches, muse over different points of view, that sort of thing. My posts can take a ridiculous amount of time to compose even for small stuff, and I'm just sick enough to enjoy that. This is where I'm comfortable with engaging with people - it comes from spending my kidhood in constant written communication with my grandmother. I like to write! This, to me, is the cheery gossip with the neighbour over the fence in the back garden. Yes, I said cheery. And shush! I even have my favourite posters here and they will never know who they are!

But I don't take it personally if no one remembers me, so don't feel like a jerk. Besides, you're right: though beyond the socialising with lots of people on a daily basis - even more people are making posts and threads of things which matter to them, having all these interactions, you can't really expect to remember everyone you post a few lines at or read some words from. You likely have a lot of things going on in your life, and it shouldn't all revolve around this place!

Some more on social anxiety from my PoV: I watched a TED talk not long ago, which particularly resonated with me. If you have a smidge of time, have a watch! You might find it useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUedQ0_EGCQ

I personally found myself nodding so much, like "yep, yep...That's absolutely right." It reminded me of when I did music at university, and the lectures I could give to the class turned out to be some of the most unexpected fun I ever had on that course, given I thought I'd really hate being in front of everyone like that (I wasn't diagnosed at that point, mind, just thought I was rubbish, shy and worthless, because that's pretty much what I'd been told). Everyone had to give a lecture on a particular music genre, artist, movement. Just one little lecture. I think I was on my fourth by the time we didn't have to do any more, but I would have if they'd let me. I was voluntarily giving them, I'd dress up in the clothes of the era I was discussing and having a really great time just passing the information on in a fun way. I reckon I still could have a bit of natter on this stuff (anyone want to discuss 1960s Rolling Stones, or the Stone Roses and Madchester? Or a top 5 of Best Guitar Riffs for Break-Ups High Fidelity style? Why David Bowie was a music deity and we shall never see his like again? Failing that, I can do Beethoven. Or Mozart. Or Chopin! How music can tell a story (tone poems)? So... yeah).

Anyhoo, I love it when people like you start asking questions, heart-in-the-right-place style. Makes me think that humanity isn't completely screwed. Carry on, sir!

[JackHatchet]

Makes me think that humanity isn't completely screwed.

There's a lot of good out there. Sometimes it can be challenging to see over all of the negatives. But it's like the stars in the sky. Sometimes you don't notice them, but when you do--you can see just how beautiful they are. And the more you look, the more you see. And before you know it--all you see are stars from sky to sky across the universe.

I love Ted Talks. Andrew Solomon did a bunch that I really loved. I even bought his book! I listen to his stuff about every 6 months or so to kinda get my head in the right place when I'm lost in the sauce. Sometimes it's easy to get used to a set group of people and forget the differences or struggles of others. But every so often something sparks my inspiration to try and push beyond my comfort zone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EVEmZ2c_es

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In response to someone else. Personal issues sometimes are something we talk about at work. I actually covered a co-worker's shift today, because they had a doctor's appointment. I know at the end of the day--we're all in it for the money. That's why we work. But for those very short moments in my life where we're a team. I truly believe we're like a small family, and I do care about the well-being of my coworkers.

I probably wouldn't tell them the gross stuff. But that's for my wife. ^.^ She's a nurse, so she's got the kind of story that'll even give me the shivers!

(Note): Ceri, if you ever want to talk more about Ted Talks stuff! I love it! I'll be sure to check out that video you linked.

[Ceridwenae]

There's a lot of good out there. Sometimes it can be challenging to see over all of the negatives. But it's like the stars in the sky. Sometimes you don't notice them, but when you do--you can see just how beautiful they are. And the more you look, the more you see. And before you know it--all you see are stars from sky to sky across the universe.

I love Ted Talks. Andrew Solomon did a bunch that I really loved. I even bought his book! I listen to his stuff about every 6 months or so to kinda get my head in the right place when I'm lost in the sauce. Sometimes it's easy to get used to a set group of people and forget the differences or struggles of others. But every so often something sparks my inspiration to try and push beyond my comfort zone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EVEmZ2c_es




(Note): Ceri, if you ever want to talk more about Ted Talks stuff! I love it! I'll be sure to check out that video you linked.

Oh, that was a good talk. I teared up and did lots of head nodding. I'm going to watch more by that guy, and I'll ensure I've a good supply of tissues to hand!

I haven't got another TED talk to share now, but the Guardian newspaper is currently running articles on mental health at the moment - it's not solely focused on anxiety or autism, but they're in there too. The articles obviously won't make anyone an expert and there's not lots up the moment, but I thought I'd share a starter link for anyone interested, not least because it addresses some queries that have popped up regarding if this is just a "thing" right now with our forum posts: https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-mental-health

Now I think I'm off the forums for the day. Have a good weekend, all.

[AngelCheese77]

TED Talks has some baller stuff on there.

[JackHatchet]

I watched your Ted Talks video about anxiety. It was good!

I think I have a very mild form of anxiety, but I don't know if that's the truth of it. One thing that I HATE doing in online games--is accepting friend requests. I'm so much of an independent person. That I dread the concept of doing something like running a farm party, and someone saying "hey, you're pretty awesome. Let's be friends so we can do this again sometime!"

But to me. I feel like that's restricting. Like oh gosh, now this person wants me to do crap with him. It feels constraining, so 95% of the times someone throws me a friend request--I tend to deny them, because I hate having friendships based around content. I get it a lot in PvP games too. But it just annoys the heck out of me. Especially when you run a game with someone, and they add you. And then they pester you every other day to run games. NOOO! I told you to leave me alone. I don't want to run PvP right now. I'm busy playing Age of Empires 2!

One of the reasons why I absolutely love chat channels and the Novice Network (and strangers online), is that there's never any solid obligation or commitment. I could literally disappear off the earth the next day--and no one would wonder where I was. And I greatly enjoy that freedom. And anytime I feel tied to something--it feel restricting. It's hard to explain beyond 'anxious.'

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I do know that I've often fell into that trap where I'm 'that person' who leaves another behind, and then they get upset that I left them. So I try extremely hard not to let people get close to me in that regard. Good examples (from years ago). Would be like making friends in WoW, and then deciding I wanted to play Swtor or FFXIV. I don't believe I need my friend's approval to chase my own path. I just do it. But then they complain that I abandoned them. Like hey. This is how I am. You can choose that or leave it. But please don't guilt trip me over it. It annoys me greatly.

In FFXIV's it's been about tranasfering servers and such. I GREATLY DISLIKE IT when people rely on me. I just want to do me--freely.

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And in my relationship it works well too! I think it's because we're much more closer intimately and mentally, we get our connection from that. That it doesn't matter what server we're on, or what games we play. For example, she's heavy in FFXIV--and I'm on break until Shadowbringers. We rely on each other mentally and emotionally, and that connection is great. But when it comes to entertainment like games, TV, or movies--we're both completely free to chase our goals without feeling chained by each other.

-shrugs- I don't know. I've never felt anxious with my wife. I think it's because I spent a long time making sure she was the perfect person. So I don't fall into some of the pitfalls of being saddled with some annoying pug that I just want to tell off, lol.

[Whelp]

Autistic person here.

I'll admit first I didn't read everything here because the replies have an overwhelming amount of text. I'm sorry if I repeat points made.

RE "tolerance": I don't want tolerance. I want acceptance. I want people to respect my desire not to participate in VC unless it's critical for group activities. I want people to understand when I say I don't communicate indirectly I *mean* it. I want people to not try to "read between the lines" when I say a thing. I want people to accept that sometimes I'm just going to be too anxious to do stuff and a lot of times that anxiety comes with a sense of not knowing what I am actually anxious about. I don't want to be told to "get over" my anxiety. I don't want to be told "it's not a big deal". I just want to tell people a thing sucks and not get advice in exchange. I want acceptance. I don't want to be told how to change, what I can do to "make things easier", or that I am being "annoying". I want to feel heard. I want people to know I know my triggers for sensory overstimulation and if I say I can't handle something it's because I am 35 years in to my autistic existence and I know myself really well. I don't want to be told "it's not that bad". I just want people to listen and be compassionate. I want my stims in society to be accepted without being told how weird my hand movements are. I want to flap in public without the weird stares. I want to say something is sensory hell for me without hearing that bright lights don't bother most people. I am not most people. I never will be. I want me as I am to just be without other people trying to change me. I want people to stop making fun of me when I don't get jokes. I want people to stop judging me for taking things literally. I don't want to be tolerated. I want my existence to be a barely noticed blip in a crowd. I want to be accepted.

[AngelCheese77]

Autistic person here.

I'll admit first I didn't read everything here because the replies have an overwhelming amount of text. I'm sorry if I repeat points made.

RE "tolerance": I don't want tolerance. I want acceptance. I want people to respect my desire not to participate in VC unless it's critical for group activities. I want people to understand when I say I don't communicate indirectly I *mean* it. I want people to not try to "read between the lines" when I say a thing. I want people to accept that sometimes I'm just going to be too anxious to do stuff and a lot of times that anxiety comes with a sense of not knowing what I am actually anxious about. I don't want to be told to "get over" my anxiety. I don't want to be told "it's not a big deal". I just want to tell people a thing sucks and not get advice in exchange. I want acceptance. I don't want to be told how to change, what I can do to "make things easier", or that I am being "annoying". I want to feel heard. I want people to know I know my triggers for sensory overstimulation and if I say I can't handle something it's because I am 35 years in to my autistic existence and I know myself really well. I don't want to be told "it's not that bad". I just want people to listen and be compassionate. I want my stims in society to be accepted without being told how weird my hand movements are. I want to flap in public without the weird stares. I want to say something is sensory hell for me without hearing that bright lights don't bother most people. I am not most people. I never will be. I want me as I am to just be without other people trying to change me. I want people to stop making fun of me when I don't get jokes. I want people to stop judging me for taking things literally. I don't want to be tolerated. I want my existence to be a barely noticed blip in a crowd. I want to be accepted.

You have literally described what my husband goes through. Many hugs from me.