I need help understanding different personality types!

[JackHatchet]

The best way to handle the situation for talking can be to accept they won't often initiate conversation. Nothing wrong with poking to chat as long as it's not constant or demanding, it can often be nice. Asking questions or bringing up a subject of mutual interest can help since that's a lot easier than being expected to contribute your own topic or flow of conversation. For example I'm terrible with chatting about day to day things, but I could ramble about something ingame all day. Quite a few with autism have that trait of very specific focused areas of interest. If they're quiet or drift away it doesn't mean they're being rude or dislike talking to you.

I think what bothers me the most is when the two issues you mentioned are combined. I don't like when people say "everyone hates me,' but will refuse to initiate conversation with me. Even if I start with some small-talk. It just kinda dissipates into a non-conversation. I don't hate anyone. I'll talk about anything. I'm a social butterfly extrovert.

But I get what you're saying. There's probably a wide variety of factors involved. I know that people who have depression or the "everyone hates me" blues isn't always autistic. And autistic people don't always have depression. And then on top of that social anxiety is an entirely different issue that others may or may not have.

Which is again why I really like these more personalized responses. I know a few people suggested I can Google Autism or read up on it with some Wikis or what not. But those don't feel like real life experiences from real people. I'm not looking for a book to tell me that people are X, Y, and Z. I'm looking for experiences of how people with X, Y, and Z may also have A, B, C. Or how they handle things differently. If I expected everyone to behave like a book told me they would--I'd be no better off than if I did nothing. Kinda like that 'wise' saying how a wise person is the one who admits to knowing nothing. I don't want to get caught in a trap where I read about something, and then learn that it's wrong. i'd rather build my foundation with real life experiences. Because I don't want to make assumptions based on a book. I want to build my wisdom from experience.

[StarRosie]

Basically social anxiety makes chatting and talking very difficult. The anxiety part makes you see potential dangers where there aren't any, such as "what if the thing I say comes across as rude, or over-friendly, or stupid, or offensive" and in addition, you tend to be more sensitive to emotions so rejection or ridicule would hurt a lot more. It doesn't mean talking is impossible or that socially anxious people dislike talk or company in itself, it's just that it's difficult. This is a disorder, it's your brain being wired differently so while you can work on it, you can't just snap out of it or grow a thicker skin.

The best way to handle the situation for talking can be to accept they won't often initiate conversation. Nothing wrong with poking to chat as long as it's not constant or demanding, it can often be nice. Asking questions or bringing up a subject of mutual interest can help since that's a lot easier than being expected to contribute your own topic or flow of conversation. For example I'm terrible with chatting about day to day things, but I could ramble about something ingame all day. Quite a few with autism have that trait of very specific focused areas of interest. If they're quiet or drift away it doesn't mean they're being rude or dislike talking to you.

Someone give this lad a medal!

Man, as someone with autism (Aspergers.), I've been struggling and rewriting a post over and over to try and offer some insight and help on how to get over some of the 'hurdles', but you summed it up pretty well. I think, one thing I'd note is that in some cases. We WANT to talk, just the anxiety is so crippling that it's really hard to approach someone and just...talk. I know that my head plays dozens of doomsday scenarios when I dare try to say "Hi." to someone.

I think what bothers me the most is when the two issues you mentioned are combined. I don't like when people say "everyone hates me,' but will refuse to initiate conversation with me. Even if I start with some small-talk. It just kinda dissipates into a non-conversation. I don't hate anyone. I'll talk about anything. I'm a social butterfly extrovert.

I guess my only advice would be, build common ground, it can actually help more then it seems when there's more common area for you guys to talk about. And be a bit patient if they're struggling to have small talk or a conversation.

On the "Everyone hates me" bit, my guess is that their autism might be walking hand and hand with depression. And from my experience with both, the two make for a truly crippling combo that usually leads to a lot of mentally beating myself up up over the little things. Sadly, I don't have any advice here on this bit, as I'm still struggling to figure out the best way to tackle it myself.

[Limonia]

I am one of those people who can just "drift off" as you call it. And it's not because I don't care or because I don't want to talk to anyone. But because (and I don't want to speak for anyone else with autism) for me personally, I "drift off" because I can get "sucked up" into my own little world, where all that exists is just me and whatever it is I'm doing. That "phase" can lasts for a few hours, a day, or on rare occassions, it can last weeks.

I know these kind of phases as well. During those times it's not that you don't care about others, but somehow you... sort of don't care about others anyway. It's complicated to explain. But your own interests or whatever are kind of "more important" for yourself than socializing during those moments, so that you forget about all the social stuff. And because I could never initiate a conversation anyway, it's even easier to "forget".
And it's even worse if you actually promised to reply to someone or something like that because you're then scared to talk to them because they could say something about not calling back earlier and it could maybe hurt you (even if it's a person you know that would never react like that), so talking to them gets even harder than it already is.
Oh, I'm so so bad at explaining, I hope you can understand what I mean.

Basically social anxiety makes chatting and talking very difficult. The anxiety part makes you see potential dangers where there aren't any, such as "what if the thing I say comes across as rude, or over-friendly, or stupid, or offensive" and in addition, you tend to be more sensitive to emotions so rejection or ridicule would hurt a lot more. It doesn't mean talking is impossible or that socially anxious people dislike talk or company in itself, it's just that it's difficult. This is a disorder, it's your brain being wired differently so while you can work on it, you can't just snap out of it or grow a thicker skin.

Not belonging isn't necessarily true, everyone belongs somewhere and can make friends, but it's easy to perceive it that way if you fall into the trap of thinking social interaction is an impossibility for you. Having that much struggle to simply chat to someone can be discouraging. Honestly it can be a bad habit sometimes, it's unhealthy to get too deep into an "everyone hates me" pool of self pity, you tend to push away those who care. It's not always the worst thing to point this out (just in a nice way, not an angry one). Even if they don't seem to listen, they can understand it.

OMG, this somehow describes me perfectly, I'm kind of surprised about it.

[Selova]

What's the difference between small talk and over-sharing? I guess to me all talk is talk.

The way I view small talk might differ from the actual definition but I view people that start out conversations with small talk to be lacking in perception and awareness. Some people might even use it because they lack experience on how to hold a conversation with someone.


Its said that it can help with feeling a person out so you know where to take the conversation, but I view it as a incredibly boring route in communicating and getting to know someone.


You dont have to get into too personal territory but I'd rather show the person I'm communicating with personal interest in them rather than bringing up vague and boring topics that can honestly serve to make a already awkward silence even worse.


If you can show that you're interested them as a person, chances are you can get them to open up a bit about who they are and their interests and that's always a easier path to converse with, especially if you have things in common, like playing a MMO .

Anyways sorry for the rant, this is just my thoughts on the topic.

[Kelani]

I don't know whether I'm autistic yet, as stated in a prior post, I'm undergoing an assessment for ASD. I have always had a social disorder and have had people say to me that on first meeting me that I've come across snobby and disinterested in people. However, once they've got to know me they realise I'm not like that at all, I'm just very very very socially awkward. I cannot and will not instigate a conversation, I just never know what to say, and I find it hard sometimes to maintain a conversation if someone has instigated one. I also avoid social instances (in real life) like parties, gatherings, even going to see the Liverpool parade this last Sunday I missed out on because I didn't want to be around crowds. I don't have friends that I can go and see where I live (lived in Liverpool for the last 19 years) the only friends I have I keep in contact with on Messenger and phone. They live so far away that we hardly see each other because of the cost of train prices are ridiculous.

Online, I keep to myself. I will say hello in a dungeon, offer advice if someone asks for it, will sometimes respond to something someone says but I don't tend to start a conversation with someone. Sometimes if someone tries to talk to me the conversation will fizzle out pretty quickly, because it just feels.... awkward, for lack of a better word. I don't know whether people think I'm weird or not, I've never asked. I've only just started talking about it over the last couple of years (mainly cos I've had to for the assessment) but I had a very poor upbringing, and my parents made me feel ashamed of myself, I still do feel this shame and I can't shake it. My parents didn't treat me well because they basically thought and often said to me that I was "odd".

Whether I'm autistic or whether it's due to a mental health issue I still have problems with social interaction. As I said, I don't know whether people see me differently, compared to other people who don't have any social problems. But I've always felt like I've been on the outside, looking in. I've never really fit in anywhere or ever really been a part of anything. I see the way other people are (outgoing, friendly, etc) and I wish that I could be like that but I can't.

An example of feeling on the outside is when I play Town of Salem. I often see things in the game that others don't. When people can't see what I'm seeing I get really frustrated and try to make them see. In these cases, I'm normally ignored even though I try my hardest to make people see. Heck, I actually don't know why people start ignoring me to be honest, but the more they ignore me the more frustrated I become. I did actually get a compliment once when I saw something that others couldn't see and successfully outed the Arsonist but that was like only once! They asked me how I did it, but I couldn't explain how, it's just a thing that happens.

Sorry for the waffle, I tend to do that a lot.

[Darus]

Man these autism topics are popping up quite a lot lately, guess that's my cue to jump in.

Allow me to provide ample insight on the "condition" known as autism. As for my credentials - I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, under the umbrella of Autism Spectrum Disorder, 10 years ago when I was 23 and this led me into the field of psychology and immediately obtained my Bachelors degree in the field and am now getting my Masters in counseling where I frequently use autism as the subject matter of papers. Needless to say, I have a relation to and knowledge on the condition.




What is it?
Autism, for the most part, is misunderstood even on the way it's diagnosed and explained. To explain it simply, Autism is a set of conditions that affects a person's cognitive ability to socially relate with others. In layman's terms, Autism makes it hard to interact socially. This means not knowing what to say or just understanding why we do things in a situation or how to relate to another.

What's the problem?
All a person with autism wants is to be accepted. That's it. Understand they have some oddities and differences and accept them for that, that's all they want. The problem for people with autism is they don't act like everyone else and frequently, and I mean FREQUENTLY, get rejected from social groups for being "odd" or seemingly out of place. This happens early on especially. Their conditions stunts their ability to learn socially which causes them to get cast out of social groups and prevents them from getting any social interaction, and thus, social learning and understanding.


Whats the cause?
Autism is a condition that occurs in 1 out of every 40 people. However, that statistic is skewed as men have a 5 times higher rate than women, so it's about 5-10% in the male population, maybe even more based on how you view diagnosing criteria. Autism is not a truly negative condition and is not an unnatural phenomenon. It's been around since forever and does have beneficial effects for some. Vaccines do not cause it and right now the US is having frequent measles outbreaks cause of this view perpetrated by legal criminals. Autism is natural and can cause a decrease in social capacity for an increase in cognitive capacity. Einstein is attributed as having been a person who most likely had autism, as did many scientists and inventors. Autism creates a good situation for creating men and women of science and alters how they behave. It allows us to advance in society through truly insane considerations the normal person just would not think of.




So, what does this mean for everyone here?

You know people with autism, you all do. You can't go online without meeting some. Just try to understand some people have different brain hardware that makes it hard to understand the social direction of others. Accept your friends for their good points and try to help them learn social cues and needs. Autism is not an excuse and it's not a disease, it's a person that was hardwired differently so that they can approach the world at a different manner. Human's are a complex species and many hate others for being any bit different, so people with autism do experience many hardships, but so does everyone in the world. The problems they face is that they lack some of the ability to pick themselves up the same way and these leads to more hardships.

When a person is different or has their own problems, just remember we ALL have our problems. Every single human will at multiple points in their lives go through mental disorders, conditions, and disabilities. We all age, losing our bodies and minds to time.

If you don't learn to accept others with problems, then what right do YOU have to be accepted when you eventually develop your own difficulties?

[JackHatchet]

Allow me to provide ample insight on the "condition" known as autism. As for my credentials - I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, under the umbrella of Autism Spectrum Disorder, 10 years ago when I was 23 and this led me into the field of psychology and immediately obtained my Bachelors degree in the field and am now getting my Masters in counseling where I frequently use autism as the subject matter of papers. Needless to say, I have a relation to and knowledge on the condition.

First off, I want to thank you for your post. It was well worth reading!

Secondly, I had no freaking clue that autism was that common. I thought it was like a 1 in 10,000 thing. It's just never been an issue at all in my life. At least not that I'm aware of. None of my family, nor my friends have every been diagnosed with autism. So my exposure to autism (and mental-illness) has been extremely lacking. Heck, I didn't even know depression was a legitimate thing until in my 20's when I went through the learning process of why "telling them to just feel better" wasn't a viable solution. Because honestly, if you've never exposed to that stuff, and you only know normal--it can be a challenge to understand different. And unfortunately, people can be extremely critical when asking questions. As was seen in some of the earlier comments in this thread.

I guess if there's any part of me that wants to rant about something. Because it's not all about learning, although that's the part I appreciate the most. As an extreme extrovert. Anytime I want to feel accepted or participate. I eagerly force my way into a situation. And that's my normal. So it's incredibly challenging for me to comprehend people who feel neglected or left out. I know people want to feel accepted. But I've never been the kind of person to seek acceptance. Rather--I do me (being an extreme extrovert), and acceptance has just been part of the package. So when I see people wish for acceptance. I don't quite know how to give it to them. I'm willing to be anyone's friend, but they have to meet me half way. And If they don't. I just assume they're doing other things, and I let them move on.

But because I only know me. I often get stuck in the trap of just assuming people are as ambitious, social, or extroverted as me. So I don't always recognize when they need a helping hand. For example initiating conversation. If I want something--I'll just boldly blurt it out (like this forum post). I wanted to know something, and so I asked. Even though I knew people would think I was a troll. I just HAD to know, so acted the way I act.

And a lot of times I think other people will do that. And when they don't initiate. I often mistake their failure to initiate as a purposeful action. As in they chose not to initiate because they were bored, didn't care. Or just had no desire for a conversation. I struggle to remember that 'they want to, but are held back." Because man, I'll gladly extend a bridge. But I can't always read people, and I've learned the hard way too many times that imposing just makes people angry!

[Ceridwenae]

But because I only know me. I often get stuck in the trap of just assuming people are as ambitious, social, or extroverted as me. So I don't always recognize when they need a helping hand. For example initiating conversation. If I want something--I'll just boldly blurt it out (like this forum post). I wanted to know something, and so I asked. Even though I knew people would think I was a troll. I just HAD to know, so acted the way I act.

Don't make the mistake of thinking if someone is introverted (if we're using that intro vs extro analogy) that they're not social; as in, don't mistake introversion for shyness. I'm a really sociable person, one-on-one, but only if they take a heap of time to get to know me well. If I get to know people one-on-one first, and then there's grouping up - say for a dungeon if you will - it's great! I will likely have a lot of fun. Otherwise, it's just hell. I also will need solo time in amongst that, because the interactions take an emotional toll. It's hard work, it's not that I don't want to do it (though some days it is that too, because we all have those days), it just comes from a different place.

It's funny reading what you've written here, as it comes across like you have a condition too (social anxiety cue: please don't take that the wrong way!). If you take that bit where you're saying you don't recognise when someone needs a helping hand, or mistaking the lack of conversation starters for disinterest, you could flip it on its head and perhaps you'll start to understand why, say, someone like me (social anxiety), doesn't get your behaviour either. Though, it will vary from person to person.

I think it's very much worth your time to read some decent peer-reviewed medical papers on this stuff in your leisure time. A framework of understanding, if you will, a bedrock to build upon then (which is where the anecdotes you've asked for will help fill in gaps). And bugger me, this thunderstorm is ridiculous, and though I'd love to write you six pages more and gabber about social interactions all day, I should probably go. I may edit later if it feels necessary.

Quickly though! I'm proud of you for starting this topic. The more people seek to expand their knowledge in this way, the better.

[Canth]

Stuff

I fully agree with everything you’ve said. I used to be an ESE Para, and I’m married to a man with ASD who’s been struggling his whole life with social interactions. However, he’s brilliant, kind, and the most helpful person I’ve ever met. Over the years he’s improved his social skills with a trial by fire (college student government, becoming a teacher), and he’s come out on top, with a lot of effort on his part.

This is not to say he’s mastered his differently-wired brain, but he’s coming close. Right now his biggest flaws I’d say is dealing with stress, and aversion to stepping out of his comfort zone. Game-related example is that he’s a phenomenal WHM, but has a harder time staying calm when shit hits the fan (I often co-heal with him for this reason), also he’s too scared to level AST because it’s different, and he doesn’t want to learn something new while also dealing with IRL stress (exam week, and now we’re moving).

I’m not sure where I was going with this anymore but I felt like I needed to comment. >_>

[Darus]

Hello hello! Been some interesting questions and comments going on here, and as I have been trained to be an advocate, I must answer these calls and teach more info!

JackHatchet asked if autism can learn social interaction with their interests - Of course! To a degree. I myself am proof of that (social science degrees all around!). And yet, the anxiety still can reign supreme on me some days and makes it hard to initiate contact (I've been rejected a lot in my younger days and never quite learned the core bits that are more or less impossible in this stage of brain development, stuff like that. I know better but the fear and anxiety hold me and I'm conscious of it as it happens). I am a social butterfly, once conversation and connections are started, but getting there is hard.

Ok, so to explain the issue of "mental illness" and "autism". See, the Psychiatrists (doctors), not to be confused with the psychologists (researchers) and counselors (direct helpers), decided to change how "autism" is listed. "Autism Spectrum Disorder" does not differentiate from difference autism type conditions - basically, asperger's syndrome doesn't exist in diagnosis except as reference, it's now "ASD". This made it easier to get insurance payouts for people with autistic conditions, or conditions of similar difficulties. So, "autism" means a VERY VERY broad field of problems now. A person who is mentally 4 years old for their whole life and a person who manages to build a warp engine are BOTH "autistic". Messed up right? That's the current diagnosis for a few years until we stop using the DSM 5 and move to a new model with autistic variants as their specific conditions.

Many with autism develop obsessions, it's specific and almost random. Mine was video game design but after my diagnosis I got lucky and got an obsession in autism itself. The falloff effect of that is this obsession includes knowing psychology, science, and all that stuff. Lucky for me.

The lucky ones with autism aren't as lucky either. Autism tends to lead to a slow mental growth. It doesn't stop, but it can be 10 years behind. I was probably 8 or so years behind by the time I finished high school and stayed a kid well until I hit 30, still am younger than my age even now. It can also cause intellect to increase. So, we now have an issue for the person. They may be 16 years old physically, hormones raging, mentally 8 and innocent as can be, but capable of doing graduate level education projects. Do we put them in special ed, and stunt their potential?, or in advance studies and watch them die socially without any support? It's a chaotic state of being and people with autism may have a suicide rate of 30 times the normal rate. Many of the non suicidal may die from lack of self care due to having miserable lonely lives that don't allow them to use their obsessions and potential or form meaningful relationships.
Honestly, the "problem" with autism is based on society. Proper understanding and programs would mean they could learn at a rate matching their chaotic identity and negate the lack of social growth to a hefty degree. Preventing rejection and promoting the obsession can lead to outrageously capable experts. Autism has always been around and it has benefits as well as deficits. It's most likely a natural occurrence to promote advancement and specialists within the human race.

If vaccines cause autism, then we need to find more vaccines to give to people.