NIN changes and queries

[Seraphor]

Meisui
Is this viable utility? Is using and then cancelling Suiton for 40 Ninki going to be worth the loss of another viable Ninjutsu?

Kassatsu
Says it increases the potency of the next Ninjutsu. Does this just mean Goka Mekkyaku and Hyosho Ranryu? or does it bolster all possible Ninjutsu? If so, by how much?

Gotta say, Hakke Mujinsatsu is gong to be great for AoE, and Bhavacakra getting a 1s recast will be great too. Presumably though we'd just use Bunshin with trick in place of Bhava, and Bhava where we would usually use Hellfrog.

Trick phase:
I'm thinking... Bunshin, Suiton, Trick, Aeolian combo, while weaving all three oGCD's and finish with a Hyosho?
Or... could this be where we Suiton>Meisui for 80 Ninki (with Mug) to fit in a Bhava at the end of trick?
Would it be possible to fit in a Hyosho AND a Meisui>Bhava?
EDIT: I suppose the only way to fit in both would be with two Kassatsu charges, and then two Hyosho's would be more potency anyway, and fewer button presses.

Ten Chi Jin
With this no longer requiring Ninki, would this be more useful at some point in the Trick Phase?
Say squeezing out a Fuma and maybe a Raiton at the end of Trick, after Aeolian Edge, as this would be more potency than a double Spinning Edge or Gust Slash...

[Syphin_Polaris]

My take on Meisui is to consume the Suiton effect when TCJ doesn't line up with the trick cooldown, what way you'd still come out on top with ninki (assuming you don't overcap it) to push towards a bunshin or bhava. I'm not sure about TCJ under trick, it doesn't feel right in my head and I'm not going to say I'm great at the whole theory craft but I feel like bunshin will be the go to for trick window, assuming the clone's damage is respectable and I would assume it is.

Expanding on our AoE with Death Blossom > Hakke Mujinsatsu is going to be really nice. We are losing 100 potency on Bhava, but with basically no CD? it's a buff out right imo. The two new ninjitsu from Kassatsu (on top of kassatsu having 2 charges and half the CD we have now) I welcome with open arms. Might not be promised crits but there is still a boost in damage and new toys, can't really complain. I wish it told us how much the boost was though.

We'll see what the (official) numbers are once we get our hands on it first hand as we don't know what may or may not change, or errors in the tool tips from the media tour. The math boys and girls that theory craft and test their hearts out will be all over this and I'm sure they already are looking at these even if they change. Till then, trying to contain my excitement for the xpac is... getting really difficult lol.

[DAILO]

Assuming tooltips stay true on release, you will have 80 NINKI off a basic opener due to 8 NIN per weaponskill (5 GCDs) and Mug giving 40 NIN (IIRC it got increased on 5.0) by the time you do your first TA. You don't want to spend it on Bhava since you definitely want to Bunshin during TA for 16 NIN per weaponskill which should fit in a Bhava near the end of TA window. The only issue here is you might not hit the NIN requirement for that Bhava due to having to cast enhanced mudras in-between GCDs if you have poor latency (you should only use Hyosho during this time as the enhanced mudra).

Now the question is, where do you want to utilize TCJ and Meisui? Using TCJ currently is roughly equivalent to 3 GCDs which means you won't have time to use it directly as an opener (unless they introduced significant reductions in input delay) since Mug, Kassastsu, and Pots need to fit in before a TA. With Suiton being 20secs, you have more leeway for landing TA, but I assume people still want it on time after 5 GCDs. If numbers are the same on release, a Bunshin during TA with a Bhava ender will deal more damage than a Bhava -> TCJ -> Suiton -> Meisui especially considering you still need to utilize your Kassatsu mudras during that time.

These are all assumptions, but I believe people will still stick with the normal opener except Bunshin instead of Bhava and use TCJ into Meisui after TA has already expired for Bhava spamming. TCJ is more meant for filler damage once you use up your Ninjutsu cooldowns from Kassatsu. I don't think anyone will use TCJ into Doton anymore due to Meisui existing.

From the other thread.

edit:
Meisui is viable as it gives us a reason to use TCJ into Suiton over Doton off cooldown because you can argue that 40 NIN is half a Bhava (worth 250 potency).

[Raikai]

Wow, between Kassatsus 2x charges and TCJs, you'll be casting mudras a lot more often

[Seraphor]

I'm not sure about TCJ under trick, it doesn't feel right in my head and I'm not going to say I'm great at the whole theory craft but I feel like bunshin will be the go to for trick window, assuming the clone's damage is respectable and I would assume it is.

My first thoughts too, it seems to make more sense to feed the Bunshin, it's the... cognitively simpler option.
However, if you're out of oGCD's to weave (you only have Bhava, Mug, Dream and Assassinate) and you only have your weaponskills left for the last 2-3 or so seconds, and you're back at the start of your combo...

Spinning Edge is 200 potency, or 400 under Bunshin.
Fuma Shuriken is 280, or 560 under Ten Chi Jin.

If you manage to fit a fifth GCD in your trick window:
Gust Slash is 250 potency, 500 under Bunshin.
Raiton is 400 potency, 800 under Ten Chi Jin.
And you can probably get that Raiton out quicker than the second GCD if you start your Ten Chi Jin immediately after Aeolian Edge, making you more likely to fit it into the Trick window than Gust Slash.

Then... I guess you Suiton and Meisui to get another Bhavacakra, not in the Trick window obviously but quicker than you otherwise would. Unless this screws up your Ninki gauge sync for the next rotation.

[Arkenne]

If you TA at GS instead of SE, you can fit 2 AE in it, both having 440*2, which in my opinion would be better than a Raiton and 1 AE.

One thing we have to come to terms with is that we WILL clip ... one HELL of a lot more than now too...

You may have Bhava, Mug, DwaD and Assassinate, but TCJ can't be used before Kassatsu, and you can't Kassatsu while TCJing, so, Kassatsu and Hyosho is also another thing to throw inside TA.

Suiton now lasts 20 seconds, not only 10, which will allow for more flexibility planning over your moveset, since if you are above 60 Ninki, its not convenient to Meisui, as you'll overcap. You can just hold off on Meisui until after a Bhava (or Bunshin), or in as an option, can cast TCJ when TA is at 24s on the CD, that way you'll have TA enabled by the last second of Suiton.

TCJ Suiton to Meisui is indeed indirect 250 potency skill.
TCJ Doton is still stronger than TCJ Suiton inside TA so long you are lvl 71 or lower, but if you so much as miss ONE single tick of that Doton, TCJ Suiton would have been a better option.

Kassatsu is still the skill most in the grey here... it says Increase the potency of the next Ninjutsu, but for how much? Also Hyosho has a 550 potency which is stronger than the 400 from Raiton. But does this buff ALSO applies to Hyosho? Or is Hyosho simply unlocked and hits for 550?

[Kaikyrius]

Kassatsu is still the skill most in the grey here... it says Increase the potency of the next Ninjutsu, but for how much? Also Hyosho has a 550 potency which is stronger than the 400 from Raiton. But does this buff ALSO applies to Hyosho? Or is Hyosho simply unlocked and hits for 550?

I was wondering that too. If Kassatsu still guaranteed Raiton to crit, wouldn't that be more beneficial that Hyosho if it didn't crit?

[DAILO]

I was wondering that too. If Kassatsu still guaranteed Raiton to crit, wouldn't that be more beneficial that Hyosho if it didn't crit?

So far in the test build, Hyosho does not guarantee crit from Kassatsu buff. Raiton did not crit from Kassatsu buff either, but these could be subject to change on release.

[Jonnycbad]

Without Dripping Blades 20% damage and Slashing debuff's 10% damage, RIP Fuma Shuriken.

[Syphin_Polaris]

Without Dripping Blades 20% damage and Slashing debuff's 10% damage, RIP Fuma Shuriken.

Well, yes and no. I can still see it having some use, and they increased in potency according to this sheet by 40. In fact a lot of skills got a potency boost to make up for the loss of at least dripping blades trait. Like, at glance it looks like your main combos (Aeolian, Shadowfang, and Armor Crush) all had a boost in potency to make up for the loss in traits. Bhavacakra had a potency drop by 100 down to 500, but that is likely because of the non existent recast for it for Shadowbringers. The more I look at these changes on abilities and think about them in a fight, they make sense with the rest of their changes but we won't know for sure till we jump in for ourselves.