The Keeper's Hymn?

[JDR388]

It makes sense by a new player being well-informed and there being clear information and, if he did not see what was given to him, it's his entire fault.
You're going to reply "But nobody knows how it works/it's a huge mess", theoretically when they are actually caring about new players (which is not now, they stated, but after 2.0) that information should be available. And now you're going to say "What if there's some odd non-obvious trick", well that's a thing for people who actually care, and if you do in fact care you are going to do research beforehand.

Ok so here is a response you didn't anticipate then. One that bears more on the accessibility side of FFXIV then on the game design side. It's no secret that SE brass and Yoshi P are both trying to engineer this game to be a competitive mass market, current gen MMO. Such an endeavor requires the game to be acessable from the get go. Systems should be introduced slowly, with game altering, weighted decisions to come at the end of one's journey rather then at its onset. The system as currently implemented asks all brand new players to realize a complete critical analysis of their chosen class at level 10 in order to be free of making a potentially irreversible mistake. Let me write that again just for rhetorical gravitas. Not maximum level - not halfway through, level 10; arguably 4-6 hours after first picking up the game. If players fail to achieve critical awareness of their class by this point, if they fail to become fully literate with the entire stat point system, then they run the risk of making egregious errors that, so long as the resources to change them remain finite, may fatally wound all future endeavors they make with that class.

While you might argue that players have a responsibility to inform themselves, the reality is that a significant margin of the modern potential player-base would not have the desire or the fortitude to do so. Ultimately this game exists to make money for SE, for SE the best way to do this is to make the most attractive, profitable game that they can without sacrificing the values that they hold as a company (knowing SE these are probably a high focus on narrative, immersion, and graphical fidelity). The more successful the game is at doing this, the more developed it becomes, the more resources get funneled back into it. If FFXIV fails to create a modern advancement system that rewards player experimentation without creating an irreversible conflict point (with finite reallocation being said conflict point) then it will have a harder time gaining market share in a highly competitive space, it will have a harder time getting new players engaged with their characters, and it will have a much harder time retaining a burgeoning player-base in 2.0.

I really want all these things to happen. I want FFXIV to be successful because I have invested my time into it and into relationships that I have formed within it. Perhaps this may seem a dramatic conclusion to draw form something as simple as stat allocation, but as it stands it is one of only two mechanisms in the game that rely on player input (the other being selecting abilities from other classes) and as such plays a pivotal role in how we come to relate our characters, and through them, the game itself.

Perhaps I am getting to heavily into game design theory. In my last post I opened with the line that I am not one for melodrama and now I've gotten it all over my new shirt. I'll retire for now.

[Riaayo]

Ok so here is a response you didn't anticipate then. One that bears more on the accessibility side of FFXIV then on the game design side. It's no secret that SE brass and Yoshi P are both trying to engineer this game to be a competitive mass market, current gen MMO. Such an endeavor requires the game to be acessable from the get go. Systems should be introduced slowly, with game altering, weighted decisions to come at the end of one's journey rather then at its onset. The system as currently implemented asks all brand new players to realize a complete critical analysis of their chosen class at level 10 in order to be free of making a potentially irreversible mistake. Let me write that again just for rhetorical gravitas. Not maximum level - not halfway through, level 10; arguably 4-6 hours after first picking up the game. If players fail to achieve critical awareness of their class by this point, if they fail to become fully literate with the entire stat point system, then they run the risk of making egregious errors that, so long as the resources to change them remain finite, may fatally wound all future endeavors they make with that class.

While you might argue that players have a responsibility to inform themselves, the reality is that a significant margin of the modern potential player-base would not have the desire or the fortitude to do so. Ultimately this game exists to make money for SE, for SE the best way to do this is to make the most attractive, profitable game that they can without sacrificing the values that they hold as a company (knowing SE these are probably a high focus on narrative, immersion, and graphical fidelity). The more successful the game is at doing this, the more developed it becomes, the more resources get funneled back into it. If FFXIV fails to create a modern advancement system that rewards player experimentation without creating an irreversible conflict point (with finite reallocation being said conflict point) then it will have a harder time gaining market share in a highly competitive space, it will have a harder time getting new players engaged with their characters, and it will have a much harder time retaining a burgeoning player-base in 2.0.

I really want all these things to happen. I want FFXIV to be successful because I have invested my time into it and into relationships that I have formed within it. Perhaps this may seem a dramatic conclusion to draw form something as simple as stat allocation, but as it stands it is one of only two mechanisms in the game that rely on player input (the other being selecting abilities from other classes) and as such plays a pivotal role in how we come to relate our characters, and through them, the game itself.

Perhaps I am getting to heavily into game design theory. In my last post I opened with the line that I am not one for melodrama and now I've gotten it all over my new shirt. I'll retire for now.

^ This.

Not being able to reset your stat allocations or chosen abilities is some archaic Diablo II kind of design that really has no place in the modern era. Those saying that stat allocation should be finite and permanent and those who make poor choices should be punished for it are essentially saying that someone who crafted a character and might put 100+ hours into it will have to throw that character away and re-roll a new one just to fix that error. That is foolish and nothing more than selfish elitism.

[Kraggy]

I disagree. I think it's stupid to pay to respec every time you do something. You should put your points where you want them, and live happily ever after.

Totally agree .. BUT, only in the context of a totally transparent and documented system which explains EVERYTHING and never changes.

XIV is nothing like that, it's a typical SE game, full of undocumented mechanics and hidden stats, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make an informed decision because SE ensure you're EXTREMELY IGNORANT of the system you're supposed to be making decisions about.

[Answa]

Totally agree .. BUT, only in the context of a totally transparent and documented system which explains EVERYTHING and never changes.

XIV is nothing like that, it's a typical SE game, full of undocumented mechanics and hidden stats, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make an informed decision because SE ensure you're EXTREMELY IGNORANT of the system you're supposed to be making decisions about.

Actually... this game has by far broken off from typical SE behavior. I suggest you turn on the Help text pop-ups and hover your mouse point over each stat in your attributes menu.

[TirionCrey]

If people can't read patch notes, not SE's fault. The info was out there.

And to all those who just discarded their Hymns...you guys don't play much RPGs do you? Basic rule for any RPG, and not just RPG, pretty much EVERY GAME that has some sort of item inventory.

DON'T DISCARD ANYTHING YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IT USED FOR!

Hell, until they implemented Grand Companies and you were able to get those potions you got from the 3 different quests (Kiss of the Morning... etc.) I put them in my retainer and never touched them again, until I knew I can get them again easily.

[Signy]

^ This.

Not being able to reset your stat allocations or chosen abilities is some archaic Diablo II kind of design that really has no place in the modern era. Those saying that stat allocation should be finite and permanent and those who make poor choices should be punished for it are essentially saying that someone who crafted a character and might put 100+ hours into it will have to throw that character away and re-roll a new one just to fix that error. That is foolish and nothing more than selfish elitism.

Nobody on this game will reroll a character to change the stats.... I mean, cmon ppl how much that 23/22 of one stats affects on the battle... One equip with 2 materias gives you more that that. I know everyone want to make his character the best possible but if you make a mistake on the stats you can live with it.

Anyway, having an limited item to reset such a unimportant matter is just stupid. I'd prefer to not have stats to allot in that case...

And another thing, why we have a button to reset (that don't work) if we need to trade an item to a npc... I'm thinking that SE may wanted to implement the button as we used to have in vanilla release but they may find some kind of problem that make them change it to the way they are doing it. If it was that case just telling us the truth, a plain and simple "we have to implement like this because X and Y" will be just enough to make us bare with it. Releasing something like this that seems like it was planned by someone that don't know what it is a MMO is just stupid thinking...

[Orophin]

It will in all likelihood become a crysta item. SE just hasnt gotten around to implementing a functioning Crysta shop, but better believe it will when 2.0 hits. I expect things like stat reallocation and costumes to be the primary money-makers. Stats aren't complicated in ffxiv though, so its hard to mess them up unless you just dont read patch notes.

I sure hope SE isn't going to have a cash shop for something like this. Vanity items are fine, but not something that alters the effectiveness of your character.

I don't know why it can't be as simple as spending some gil to reset your points. There really isn't much freedom in it as it sits. If we're locked in, they may as well just take those extra 45 points and spread them across each class at their discretion.

[Soulfire]

XIV is nothing like that, it's a typical SE game, full of undocumented mechanics and hidden stats, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make an informed decision because SE ensure you're EXTREMELY IGNORANT of the system you're supposed to be making decisions about.

Actually... this game has by far broken off from typical SE behavior. I suggest you turn on the Help text pop-ups and hover your mouse point over each stat in your attributes menu.

That won't tell you how effectively something like VIT will increase enhancing magic, or more importantly the algorithms for abilities.



Oh, look at that. It doesn't even mention affecting enhancing magic. Go figure.
Thanks, Square Enix!

Assuming it did, what I was getting at is, like other stats and their affected attributes, it wouldn't tell you how much your enhancing would go up. It's pretty minimal, with gains on Protect being the same. You can end up throwing about half your stats out for practically nothing.

People do still remember how this used to work, right? You used to be able to perform a reset every so often. It only worked for a portion back then, but you could eventually get your stats where you wanted them to go. No gil, no item, only time. I was thinking they ran into some weird issue again when they said resets weren't going to be possible in 1.20, and that eventually it would be made similar to or better than how it was before then. And out comes this, sucking the fun out of tweaking stats by removing feasibility.

Hey guys! I wanted to give you some information about The Keeper's Hymn so that you know a little bit more about them before making any drastic decisions. :P

Currently the only way to obtain The Keeper’s Hymn is through quests and we have no plans at the moment to increase the methods of obtaining them. In patch 1.21a, we will be making it possible to reset your attribute point allotment for classes by exchanging The Keeper’s Hymn to guild token exchange NPCs located at each guild. However, as mentioned above, the methods for obtaining these items are limited so please use them wisely.

Unless this becomes obtainable through a repeatable quest this is not gonna work.

[Yygdrasil]

Question: I did my WHM quest before the release of 1.21a. I don't recall ever using it and I haven't sold anything since. Was this obtainable pre 1.21a? If I missed out on it, no biggy, I'm just curious.... because I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[Mychael]

Question: I did my WHM quest before the release of 1.21a. I don't recall ever using it and I haven't sold anything since. Was this obtainable pre 1.21a? If I missed out on it, no biggy, I'm just curious.... because I can't seem to find it anywhere.

It should have dropped into your inventory as a reward to the very first quest. You couldn't have used it before 1.21a, so either you tossed/NPC'd it, or you should check your retainers? ^^; (Or it could have fallen prey to the "Partial item loss" they mentioned on Lodestone.