Was I in the wrong?

[Ceridwenae]

Its just culture really. In WoW, me and friends used to do the same thing. Find rando, emote at him non stop while following him, get a huge train going with more randos cuz being part of a thing is fun, good times and laughs for all. You don't go for someone specific over and over cuz then that's harassment. Some things people just read too much into and try to put a meaning or intent that was never there.

What culture is that?

So, your intent is to have a good time and laughs for everyone. What happens when you pick someone who doesn't sign up to your school of good times? Are you and yours the arbiters of all good times, everyone has to adhere to what you've decided and damn them if they don't? Who gave you that power? Would you do it in the streets to just anyone? Perhaps you and your friends are a group of guys and you pick on a lone woman in the street, how does it look? Just because you don't see what's behind a toon in game, do you seriously think it's different? Do you or did you ever consider how the recipient of your attention feels or felt about it? Do you understand how, even in just one occasion, it can be construed or even misconstrued if you prefer as harassment regardless of your intent? I mean, did you openly say to your target "Hey, there! This isn't harassment. We're all just going to follow you around and emote or whatever at you for the next half hour. Don't take it personally! It's just fun!", so they know you're just following them for some weird kicks? Or do you really think that it's unimportant how other people feel, only your fun is paramount? Do or did you consider that the people you selected for this fun may only have said it was fun too because there was a group of you and they may have felt pressured?

Your intent is one thing, but it's also how it looks to the subject of your high jinks which should be of importance. Given it would seem you picked people you didn't know, how could you possibly know how they'd react? Would you even apologise if they were upset by it, or are you going to keep falling back on to them being thin of skin so it's all on them and there's no reason for you to pause, reflect and perhaps take some nuance into at least some consideration?

I mean, I know that's a ton of questions, and feel free to write it off as Answers on a Postcard, but I'm genuinely curious to see what your response is. I really don't want you to feel you have to answer everything or that I'm needling you, but consider this as my brand of fun (finding out what makes people tick). Sorry if it's a bit much!

But really, no one is saying don't have fun, or don't do things because bad stuff will always happen - clearly that's not true! - but if your fun comes at the expense of another person you don't even know, you've really got some hard explaining to do about yourself, and you may find yourself crossing lines you weren't aware existed.

Whether you choose to respond again on not is up to you, but thanks for replying initially all the same, and I sincerely wish you a great rest of your day/evening/whatever it is where you are.

[AxlStream]

What culture is that?

So, your intent is to have a good time and laughs for everyone. What happens when you pick someone who doesn't sign up to your school of good times? Are you and yours the arbiters of all good times, everyone has to adhere to what you've decided and damn them if they don't? Who gave you that power? Would you do it in the streets to just anyone? Perhaps you and your friends are a group of guys and you pick on a lone woman in the street, how does it look? Just because you don't see what's behind a toon in game, do you seriously think it's different? Do you or did you ever consider how the recipient of your attention feels or felt about it? Do you understand how, even in just one occasion, it can be construed or even misconstrued if you prefer as harassment regardless of your intent? I mean, did you openly say to your target "Hey, there! This isn't harassment. We're all just going to follow you around and emote or whatever at you for the next half hour. Don't take it personally! It's just fun!", so they know you're just following them for some weird kicks? Or do you really think that it's unimportant how other people feel, only your fun is paramount? Do or did you consider that the people you selected for this fun may only have said it was fun too because there was a group of you and they may have felt pressured?

Your intent is one thing, but it's also how it looks to the subject of your high jinks which should be of importance. Given it would seem you picked people you didn't know, how could you possibly know how they'd react? Would you even apologise if they were upset by it, or are you going to keep falling back on to them being thin of skin so it's all on them and there's no reason for you to pause, reflect and perhaps take some nuance into at least some consideration?

I mean, I know that's a ton of questions, and feel free to write it off as Answers on a Postcard, but I'm genuinely curious to see what your response is. I really don't want you to feel you have to answer everything or that I'm needling you, but consider this as my brand of fun (finding out what makes people tick). Sorry if it's a bit much!

But really, no one is saying don't have fun, or don't do things because bad stuff will always happen - clearly that's not true! - but if your fun comes at the expense of another person you don't even know, you've really got some hard explaining to do about yourself, and you may find yourself crossing lines you weren't aware existed.

Whether you choose to respond again on not is up to you, but thanks for replying initially all the same, and I sincerely wish you a great rest of your day/evening/whatever it is where you are.

It was just how it was. Things happened. Wanna go storm an enemy main city during the next hour? Let's shout in the city chat and get 40+ people to go. No raid group no nothing. Random war like engagement over the most random point of interests on the map? A-yup. Random conga lines in Ogrimmar? You bet! You see, it was just what happened in the hubs. Same thing as the chat randomly spamming [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]. If someone didn't want to lead the clown fiesta that ensued, they usually outran us with a mount or zoned somewhere else or some other stuff but some took it in stride and just led this amazing mob of players just spamming some random emote. You knew if someone made the train sounds (there's a choo-choo emote/sound bite that's spammable), you best believe the whole hub was gonna spam that for a solid 10-15 minutes. Hell leading one of those was how I found out about them as when I started playing, I didn't hang around the main cities much as I was levelling 99% of the time so it was a fun surprise.

We didn't know they'd react, the plan was to emote till they did but we usually got bored and moved on if they didn't. Yes some people asked questions but it'd usually be like "why?" "idk we're bored dude" "lol k". Back then people we doing the most random shenanigans just because. Didn't need organization, didn't need planning, didn't need more than 5 people. We just went and we had a blast doing so. I guess it's just an aspect of the genre that died as the players became more diverse and more sensitive.

Also to the person that said it floods chat, I think performance music is awful 95% of the time and you don't see me complaining. Just like for the emote text, there's a nifty lil option to disable that. Go figure that one out.

[Anatha]

How about "don't inconvenience others and you won't have to worry about being punished"?

[Yllania]

How about "don't inconvenience others and you won't have to worry about being punished"?

Too easy. I want people to coddle me being a jerk at all times and if they dont how dare they.

holy hell this topic got way out of hand,so im going to make it clear as possible. i wasn't upset about the emote spam or the comments, i was upset that he was hold up dungeon process to do what he was doing. why should a dungeon that take 15-20mins be a hour because they wanted mock me on everything i did from here on out?

This forums kind of really weird like that.

[Ceridwenae]

*meat and bones*

Thank you for posting this! I'll admit, I went to sleep last night a little worried I may have been too hard on you; thank you for taking it in good spirit! I may not agree with you, for reasons I'll get into briefly, but this much more insightful post really shows just how much better the conversation gets when we're each able to open up even just a little more and explain our point of view without being snippy, name calling and attempting to win the thread (I am not saying you were doing that, however you should probably watch who you sling a "thin-skinned" comment at next time My experience was a few years ago now, and an anxiety diagnosis, a miscarriage, organ removal (ow!), hospital and idiocracy have all happened since. I don't take things lying down anymore!).

I'll be honest: your scenario doesn't strike me as quite the same the same as mine, or others that have been mentioned. If you have a train sound, especially - I mean, that's genius, really. We all know what game trains - or zergs - are. I have even been part of a zerg on many an occasion (thank you WvW(vW), GW2 - and note those are active world based mass pvp maps. You go in one solo and expect to respawn many times) and even further back, in a NWN persistent world there were such trains (though they did not go after people uninterested in being part of it). Doesn't matter what the game was, trains broke my potato pc every time. Yes, my computers are always potatoes. XD The nuance of these sort of situations is worth taking into account. I love me a bit of nuance. I have a feeling you've likely dodged a few bullets you're unaware of.

I think your scenario sounds like a bunch of young people doing silly things young people do, and that tends to come without consideration of anyone you sweep up in your wake. I know, I was that young person once (albeit one who was doing silly things in what turned out to be a more socially anxious way, which I didn't realise at the time). This is not to put a dampener on your memories of the fun but you haven't really considered what it looks like in your target's shoes. Or, at least, your post does not appear to indicate this in any great way, besides an off-the-cuff response. I could construe a simple "lolk" into "wtf?! What's wrong with you people?! *nervous laugh* Okay... you do you...You wierdo. Leave me alone", but sure. I could be misconstruing that response deliberately for effect.

Here's the real crux of it however: people haven't become more sensitive in the last few years and broken the toys, we've always existed and you've just become more aware of it - not least because a portion of us will happily tell you about it in lurid detail because we have a platform to do so. You're actually thinking about modifying your behaviour, even on an unconscious level, when you kick back against people informing you of a situation they found uncomfortable, or that they're sensitive, or anxious, their very state of being is something you're uncomfortable with yourself because they are different. You're on an unconscious level thinking about modifying what you've previously found fun in light of new information, and you don't like it, giving you the impetus to make snark to that person who is challenging you. Thinking about altering your behaviour is not a silly thing to do, but because it is quite hard, it can feel more natural to be resistant and glib in the face of even small changes of the self. You can't possibly be wrong in any way, those other people are just thin-skinned! Are you thinking of a snarky reply to this right now? I mean, feel free. It's the easy way out, after all.

We're not all the same, we won't all respond to the same stimuli in the same way - those of us with disabilities and conditions know this better than anyone. We should highlight our differences to help understand one other and then move to find common ground, perhaps even get you running those trains again where possible, but this time in a more constructive fashion. We should not be using our differences against each other so casually, so thoughtlessly. That is what's going to make life more bearable, not someone mystically acquiring a thicker skin from the top shelf at the Thick Skin Supermarket, because life is about compromise. Not loading it all inequitably on one side. And you certainly don't do a thing just because you can, to paraphrase Dr. Ian Malcolm ( ). That's why I like to ask people, particularly those who seem to have quite a different view point from my own, how they arrived at their conclusions. We can then work to hopefully some kind of understanding and respect in our mutual shared space. It might not be cool, or a lovely snarky belittling one-liner - and honestly, sometimes I wish it was because I'm just as much a glutton for the easy option - but I am genuinely seeking to make our shared game a better place. And yes, it's probably fruit-loop crazy to do so, but we've already established I have issues. <3


This is the What I Learned Today Section:

For my part, if this sort of thing happens to me again, I can be less uptight, perhaps, but if I'm not in the mood for it, I'll definitely be more assertive in telling the person to back off. If they're particularly unlucky, I might engage them in a discussion where I demand further information and motive from them (and you know now just how bad that can be!). I've appreciated your, Nedkel's and JackHatchet's responses as people with differing points of view on this, even if all of your first responses to me was to be insulting. I decided you probably didn't mean it that way, you're just being blunt, or as reactive as I can be with such a call-out, and your thoughts add to the pot regardless, and you were all certainly obliging enough to elaborate when asked. I don't have to think any of you are 100% right per se, but it's not that you're all 100% wrong either. Again, I love me some nuance.

I know this is unasked for advice but I am, perhaps unnecessarily, concerned for you: I think you need to be more thoughtful, more cautious in general if you're convinced there's nothing wrong with what you did in the past at all. Though I hope you can see where I'm coming from, even just a little, and that you take this post with in the spirit it was intended: from a benevolent place with your best interests at heart, like it's from a mum or dad (which, technically, it is, so... there's that). Your posts had an young-seeming attitude which is why I've taken this stance, but if you're into your 30s and married with kids, oops! I mean in no way to regress you to younger more carefree days. Thanks again for being a good sport, I truly do value this sort of conversation - and I'm sorry for writing a novel-in-a-post.

Regardless, if you or anyone else wants to continue this discussion we've so successfully managed to derail the post with (apologies, OP!), I'm quite happy to do so - though I might be a bit slow on the replies, as I've inclement weather incoming for the next 24 hours and no guarantee of being able to post (meh, thunderstorms. I can feel it in the air, you know XD. I also realised I can probably use that inclement weather line as cover for when my mother-in-law next visits...). Anyhoo, if any of you are based on Light - and you'll hopefully appreciate how big this is for me to say - feel free to look me up for a chat about this sort of thing, or anything you have going on. I will hear you, so long as you mind your manners.