Sensible Toolkit Expansions: Tanks

[Shurrikhan]

Procedure:

1. Identify current issues with the job. These can be issues of balance, applicability, or gameplay. Note if and when a gameplay element affects one section of players negatively and another section positively.
2. Identify reasonable expansions into further toolkit themes, functions, or gameplay mechanics that you'd find attractive (and expect most players would, too).
3. Include the likely most attractive of the above expansions in the course of or alongside fixing the above existing issues.

Have at it.

[Shurrikhan]

Reserved for quick-links to well-liked suggestions and personal notes or explanations of the thread.

[Kalise]

Mob control

Specifically, Ranged mobs and our inability to position them. Both in "Meta" wall to wall pulls and also standard single packs. You can often have ranged enemies such as Casters (Imperial Signifiers for example) or Archers, that will attack from range only. While ideal play would want you to group mobs up to be able to AoE them for enmity on all targets (As well as increasing DPS)

Toolkit expansion

Enemy repositioning skills. Example from another game: WoW DK - Death Grip, Paladin - Avenging Shield (Silences), Druid - Feral Charge (Silences).

Potential examples for XIV: DRK - Death Grip Abyss Grasp. WAR - Harpoon. PLD - Flash (Blind. But literal. Make the enemy's skills have a 3y range 'cause they can't see). GNB - Magnetic Shot.

Limit Break

Tank Limit Break is trash. Very niche use for only specific abilities.

Toolkit Expansion:

Expand on Tanks new party mitigation skills. Include new extreme CD party mitigation skills for Tanks. Essentially a party version of what their invuln CD's are (Just, not with the same mechanics) powerful party CD with 180-420s CD's.

Then, give Tanks a not trash Limit Break.

Finally, design more encounters to feature raid busters that can be mitigated with the new CD skill, alongside minor raid busters that Tanks can use their minor party mitigation skills for too.

[Shurrikhan]

Mob control

Specifically, Ranged mobs and our inability to position them. Both in "Meta" wall to wall pulls and also standard single packs. You can often have ranged enemies such as Casters (Imperial Signifiers for example) or Archers, that will attack from range only. While ideal play would want you to group mobs up to be able to AoE them for enmity on all targets (As well as increasing DPS)

Toolkit expansion

Enemy repositioning skills. Example from another game: WoW DK - Death Grip, Paladin - Avenging Shield (Silences), Druid - Feral Charge (Silences).

Potential examples for XIV: DRK - Death Grip Abyss Grasp. WAR - Harpoon. PLD - Flash (Blind. But literal. Make the enemy's skills have a 3y range 'cause they can't see). GNB - Magnetic Shot.

Limit Break

Tank Limit Break is trash. Very niche use for only specific abilities.

Toolkit Expansion:

Expand on Tanks new party mitigation skills. Include new extreme CD party mitigation skills for Tanks. Essentially a party version of what their invuln CD's are (Just, not with the same mechanics) powerful party CD with 180-420s CD's.

Then, give Tanks a not trash Limit Break.

Finally, design more encounters to feature raid busters that can be mitigated with the new CD skill, alongside minor raid busters that Tanks can use their minor party mitigation skills for too.

Sorry, I don't mean to belabor the thread with just my own thoughts, but I was wondering if you could expand on some of these concepts just a bit.

1. What would make Limit Break not trash?

I could imagine quite a lot of good coming out of just having it offer: a %HP (based on the greatest base HP in party) barrier alongside percentile mitigation and having them be more reactive. LB1 for instance could give a further 10% HP barrier and be perfectly, instantly reactive, while LB2 gives a 20% HP barrier or so and instantly gives LB1 strength and then LB2 strength by its normal timing and LB3 would give 30% and the strength of LB2 during its brief duration wind-up. Or just they're ALL instantly reactive, either way.

2. Powerful party CDs.

Would these... share a cooldown with their immunities? And what then would be the point of the Tank LB?

3. Blind.

Hell yeah. Been pushing for this implementation since ARR. I'd attached to to a Shining Steel CD so that it could be applied via Shield Lob and increasingly wear down enemy accuracy over melee combos, but yeah, mostly same idea in this context. ...Sorry, no actual questions there...

I recall playing a game where Blinds worked like this, for players and enemies.

I was just thinking back to Neverwinter Nights, personally. The single-player games. Orb of Darkness and so forth, where you could potentially clutch out a blindfighter advantage, but mostly used it to force enemies apart, out of beneficial zones, or further away or towards your party.

Dark Arts-Unmend to pull to you or Dark Arts-Abyssal to pull them into each other. Blind enemies to force them close or just literally Cover everything from a particular angle. Charge a small, dense back of enemies and Brutal Swing them back towards your party. Or shoot a magnetic round into an enemy and then blow a magnetic ammo charge when slashing another to pull both to each other (and, obviously, to you). Now we just need challenging dungeons and 24-mans, or more creative 8-mans, that would more noticeably benefit from the added control.

[Kalise]

1. What would make Limit Break not trash?

Well... Given that outside of 2 very specific scenarios (One being Raid Buster skills that require Tank LB3 to survive and the other being a Healer LB3 saving a wipe via mass raise) Limit Break usefulness is based entirely on how much DPS it can offer the party.

This is where Tank LB3 is occasionally used for certain mechanics that don't require it, because the mitigated damage allows for more DPS uptime and thus higher DPS output than a mDPS LB3.

Thus, some form of tDPS increase. Either, direct damage (In which it would then be competing with mDPS or mage for its usage... Though, would often be preferential due to DPS having higher DPS so they often get less out of a LB usage, especially for some jobs like BLM/SAM/MNK that can actually lose DPS if they cast a LB3) or some sort of damage boost (Would need to be balanced carefully to ensure that it can be competitive with mDPS LB3)

Even more so, with the shift of the role of the current Tank LB's into their kits proper, via their current ShB party mitigation skills and the above suggestion for a new "LB3" type powerful skill for Tanks.

2. Powerful party CDs.

Would these... share a cooldown with their immunities? And what then would be the point of the Tank LB?

That would depend entirely on how SE wants to balance Tanks and design encounters.

My initial thought errs on the side of keeping them independent, so that CD discrepancies on immunity skills won't impact the power of these party CD's (I.e. WAR being able to Holm a TB then pop party CD for a RB and then still get Holm back for a second TB at the end of the encounter, while PLD/GNB are SoL and just never use their immunity)

Though, I can see some merit in sharing CD's. Especially if immunity skill CD's were equalized. Could also be interesting if bosses where to do 2 major busters in a fight and would be randomly a TB OR a RB so a Tank would have to react and pop the right CD to mitigate the attack.

3. Blind.

Hell yeah. Been pushing for this implementation since ARR. I'd attached to to a Shining Steel CD so that it could be applied via Shield Lob and increasingly wear down enemy accuracy over melee combos, but yeah, mostly same idea in this context. ...Sorry, no actual questions there...

I recall playing a game where Blinds worked like this, for players and enemies. But I can't for the life of me remember exactly what it was (Outside of stuff like SC2 where the gas clouds from that Zerg unit would do the same effect)

Was far more interesting than simply % chance for skill to miss (Which really punishes Melee because it makes combo's drop...)