The Healer Double Standard

[Kieren-Dohla]

These changes aren't going to stop people from DPSing. Unless there are other drastic changes that we don't know about yet (seems unlikely at this point) DPS is still going to be the default downtime activity and what what we spend most of our time doing. It'll just be really freaking boring now with only one main button.

I rarely play healer or tank. But it was obvious to me that a lot of the fun would be lost of dps'ing it's becoming so very simple for those roles. Now how could Yoshi and the rest of the developer's not realize they are sucking the fun out of things?

Their is nothing worse than taking away stuff people had for so long and dumbing it down and making it boring. It's like a punishment.

[Atlantasia]

I rarely play healer or tank. But it was obvious to me that a lot of the fun would be lost of dps'ing it's becoming so very simple for those roles. Now how could Yoshi and the rest of the developer's not realize they are sucking the fun out of things?

Their is nothing worse than taking away stuff people had for so long and dumbing it down and making it boring. It's like a punishment.

It does feel like a punishment to me... WHMs wanted to be brought up to the level of AST or so, either through direct damage or utility. And they probably should have knocked SCH down a smidge to AST's level. Basically balancing it that way and then adding interesting new things to each job to make them unique and engaging while building on that. Instead we got this. Power to the people who like what they did, but I personally don't. It's got me pretty apprehensive about the whole thing.

[reyre]

You're making a lot of assumptions however we don't know truly what's going to happen until the game comes out for those of us that pre-purchased on June 28th. If a healer is literally standing around with nothing to do then absolutely yes by all means that healer should do some DPS but once again as you've done in some of my previous threads you only read one of my comments but haven't looked at the entirety of what was said. And I believe you are absolutely incorrect. I believe it will change hatred between healers and tanks. Right now from my own is personal experiences what I have seen while playing all three classes is that there is a big fight when tanks drop stance. There is also a big fight if a tank doesn't see a Healer pushing a button a cast every single global cooldown. I personally believe that that will change the fighting will be less in those two instances.

But arent you also making assumptions? You are assuming the balances are going to work on the players favor, that is assumption since you dont know, yet you defend your position as fiercely as everyone else, for example your believes are also assumptions, i mean that is the meaning of a believe, to accept somenthing without proof.

So if you can and are vocal about being positive so can others. Either way i rather not talk about whatever you "believe" or your assumptions i rather talk about facts, for example they are not going to readjust content from lvl1-70 that seems like a huge chunk of content, how will that affect new healers? If healing is going to be more "challenging", will that not make new or less apt healers drop the job faster, since now it will be completely their fault if a party (or tank) dies ? While being superficialy more user friendly if the content will demand unlimited or ultima weapon levels of healing (or around that level) from the healers in Dungeons, instances, normal primals, etc... then would not that detract from your believe, making the rift between tank and healers (and possibly dps) even bigger? Even more so with the changes to tanks since they have even more defensive options.

[LadyKairi]

Oh you're right I must KNOW an undergeared tank is not going to use cooldowns. I must also KNOW that a DPS is going to accidentally pull another group of mobs that isn't going to be picked up right away because the tank isn't paying attention. You're right it must all be my fault. I'm so glad the forums has people like you to tell the rest of us how horrible we are and how wonderful you are. Thank you for your wonderful insight.

Even with what you are saying, I dont understand how you need to save everything. I’ve had plenty of bad runs, yet never had to change how I played to keep people from dying. Im not trying to put you down or brag, I honestly do not understand based on my personal experience and what I’ve seen with my friends/fc.

I don't find that condescending at all I find that an adequate response to a user in the Forum telling me I am a bad player for the way I play. I see a lot of these hateful people in the forums that don't actually contribute in a positive manner but rather become argumentative and call other players bad because we do not conform to the way they think the game should play and not the way the game is designed. That is the reason for these recent changes. The devs are tired of the tanks and the healers fighting in dungeons all of us have seen it at one point in time. It has to stop it's a total team effort. And the comment to me about being a bad player for conserving MP just proves what type of people are Community have in it and unfortunately there are a lot of negative people who just want to spread hate I want to spread positivity and joy in the game. But go ahead and call me condescending if you must. But I will not sit back and listen to other players say that those of us who conserve MP are bad players as there are a lot of us that do it.

The way content is designed does not show AT ALL that you should sit there and do nothing and contribute nothing but healing. If it did, we would have gotten a boost to damage taken a long time ago and heals wouldn’t be so portent. And not contributing has been seen as bad play as a result. And please don’t speak for the devs as to WHY they’re changing what they are unless you provide receipts. It’s not good to spread false information and state it as fact.

I’m not hateful, and I never called YOU specifically bad. I asked you questions, because I didn’t understand something you said. The other part has been true, whether you like it or not. Those who get anxious during runs like that aren’t as good or experienced as others. I’ve witnessed it time and time again with myself and others. You freak out and panic more when you’re not as experienced or as good. I don’t crack or freak out when I get an under geared tank or whatever because of the fact I’ve had so many of those groups, it’s literally muscle memory and you know how to get damage out even with a squish of a tank and not go completely oom. “Conserving mp” is really unneeded and the way you said it came off as that’s an excuse so you don’t have to throw out damage. Hence the confusion.

I contributed my two ¢ on the actual topic at hand. Healers don’t have to just heal to be a healer. We can throw damage as well, and a decent healer does their primary role before doing dps. People keep making it sound like the vast majority of healers only throw damage and don’t heal like they’re supposed to. I really doubt that is the case, and I think most people can agree that people who don’t keep people alive as a healer are terrible. And I really do not see the harm in letting people have the heal/dps play style. And I really don’t understand why it’s such a bad thing to Give healers a more engaging dps rotation other than 2111111112111111112. Nothing too crazy, just something more than what we are getting in ShB.

Cool on you if you think sitting there and only healing is fun(that’s how you come off with the “you fill the healer role in dungeons therefore that’s what you should do” comments), but there’s people like myself who don’t want that. We want to contribute more than just healing, and we should be able to have the choice in play style rather than conforming to one. Like I’ve said in the post you quoted me in, we could stand to heal more rather than dpsing 80-90% of the time, but they shouldn’t take it away completely. There’s a reason I enjoy healing in XIV more than I did in like WoW. I love contributing more than spamming nothing but heals and shields in fear that if I stop, they die.

And I really don’t see this hatred between heals and tanks. I don’t believe it’s as big as a problem as you’re saying, to the point we have to give up our play styles to get people to chill out. Our experiences are just night and day apparently. Dumbing down jobs and taking away the way people like to play shouldn’t be the answer.

[Lordfurious]

But arent you also making assumptions? You are assuming the balances are going to work on the players favor, that is assumption since you dont know, yet you defend your position as fiercely as everyone else, for example your believes are also assumptions, i mean that is the meaning of a believe, to accept somenthing without proof.

So if you can and are vocal about being positive so can others. Either way i rather not talk about whatever you "believe" or your assumptions i rather talk about facts, for example they are not going to readjust content from lvl1-70 that seems like a huge chunk of content, how will that affect new healers? If healing is going to be more "challenging", will that not make new or less apt healers drop the job faster, since now it will be completely their fault if a party (or tank) dies ? While being superficialy more user friendly if the content will demand unlimited or ultima weapon levels of healing (or around that level) from the healers in Dungeons, instances, normal primals, etc... then would not that detract from your believe, making the rift between tank and healers (and possibly dps) even bigger? Even more so with the changes to tanks since they have even more defensive options.

I'm not assuming anything I'm going to wait till the game comes out and see how it plays out. And I will continue to say what I have been saying I wish people would stop all the complaining until they've actually tried a new content and then if they don't like it complain away. And you are right I am assuming that is why the devs are doing it. I am assuming it's because in the last couple of months according to Square Enix they have had a record number of harassment complaints in dungeons specifically between tanks and healers so many that the gamemaster's cannot keep up with the complaints. Mysource the Square Enix directly. I did not record the conversation. I didn't have a tape recorder with me at the time sorry. And you speak of proof I've seen no proof in any of your threads just a lot of talk so isn't that kind of hypocritical?

[MizArai]

Maybe Because I'm not a healer but like... All you had was just two dots and one spamable attack. Sch had like 4 I think? I don't really see the big deal, all you lost was one extra dot.
You still going to be spamming one skill.
Sch had energy drain but like that's not much.

AST didn't lose any dots. WHM lost one dot. SCH lost too much.

AST is mad because cards are being dumbed down to the point where it feels like their identity is being taken away. (If you actually paid attention in the AST quest line, it talks about what the cards reference and why they do what they do, someone made a great post about it somewhere in the dumpster fire that is healer forums over the past week. I will not be going to find it.)

WHM is mad because we got 1 dot taken away so we now have the boring AST rotation but without anything else for us to do. And we still don't have any raid utility at all. And all of our over the top healing (of which we got more) isn't needed and still won't be needed.

SCH is mad because they lost too much (way more than one dot), and while they got a new shiny fairy, it does not fix losing too much.


To whoever it was trying to talk about how we're gaining 10% potency...
And of course healers have bigger potency spells so it's probable that at least AST and WHM will do more dmg than we currently do, but the HP for all the mobs will also go up quite a bit if Shadowbringers is like previous expansions. My undergeared WHM couldn't really kill anything in HW launch (even though I could kill 50s in ARR areas ok). My well geared WHM took much too long to kill things in Fringes and Peaks (even though I had no problems with 60s in the HW areas). I expect this to be much the same in Shadowbringers, and I for one would have loved to be able to keep any extra damage spells to be able to help kill things faster. (And that's why I'll be going DPS this expansion.)

[Nujana]

100% agree OP.

At this point, I honestly dont' believe SE has an idea how to properly do anything but DPS roles. That is why tanks are officially blue DPS now...

What I would do is, scrap the whole concept of the healer role and replace it with the support role. The support role could be anything from a melee, to physical ranged or caster and would be a DPS/heal hybrid. DNC would perfectly fit that role already (with a few tweaks).

This has two big pros:
1. You can give the support role a full DPS rotation,which either buffs the group or debuffs enemies and give them 2-3 heals.
2. You can make tanks have an identity besides "blue DPS"!
Make them be responsible for their own survivability, f.e. by giving them active mitigation they have to keep track of while tanking and give them the tools to keep themselves alive.
The group dmgreduce CD also already fits into that concept.

This is what they could do:
SCH
Debuffs enemies.
Gives out heals/small shields through the fairy (on a CD).

AST
The SCH/WHM hybrid.
Rework the card system to either hand out buffs or debuff enemies (diurnal/nocturnal).
Make each card unique again!
Draws could be achieved by completing their DPS rotation.

WHM
Buffs the group with white magic.

[Brightamethyst]

WHMs wanted to be brought up to the level of AST or so, either through direct damage or utility. And they probably should have knocked SCH down a smidge to AST's level. Basically balancing it that way and then adding interesting new things to each job to make them unique and engaging while building on that. Instead we got this. Power to the people who like what they did, but I personally don't. It's got me pretty apprehensive about the whole thing.

Yeah. Most people just wanted WHM brought up to AST/SCH levels (and maybe bring SCH down slightly.) Turn lilies into a party buff mechanic and you're set. Literally no one asked for... this... whatever the hell mess we just got.

[Urthdigger]

If you would like a more prime example the tank barely had 360 item level. We are running expert dungeons. The tank pulled mobs all the way to the boss did not use a single cool down. But it's okay go ahead and call me names tell me I'm a bad healer.

If a single bad tank means you're too scared to utilize your kit, then yeah. You're pretty bad. The rest of the crap you're spewing in this thread isn't much better. Claiming tanks and healers have some sort of animosity between each other? Please, I get along splendidly with my tanks. Even if a wipe should happen, we just shrug and say "Ok, let's split that up into two pulls next time." If you're finding tanks and healers are at each other's throats constantly, I'm inclined to believe the problem is you. And claiming that SE has personally told you that there's some record number of harassment reports between tanks and healers that you've oh so conveniently neglected to have any proof of? This is playground "My dad works at Nintendo" bullcrap.

[reyre]

I'm not assuming anything I'm going to wait till the game comes out and see how it plays out. And I will continue to say what I have been saying I wish people would stop all the complaining until they've actually tried a new content and then if they don't like it complain away. And you are right I am assuming that is why the devs are doing it. I am assuming it's because in the last couple of months according to Square Enix they have had a record number of harassment complaints in dungeons specifically between tanks and healers so many that the gamemaster's cannot keep up with the complaints. Mysource the Square Enix directly. I did not record the conversation. I didn't have a tape recorder with me at the time sorry. And you speak of proof I've seen no proof in any of your threads just a lot of talk so isn't that kind of hypocritical?

Are you not reading? or you just ignored what i wrote, because i clearly stated that i do not care about your believes, did i not?No i did not speak of proof in your arguments i simply said that the meaning of the word believe is: to accept somenthing without proof. How is it hypocritical of me when i claimed nothining, unlike you.So no it is not hypocrisy just because you have a false sense of virtue dont assume everyone is the same and im starting to wonder if you can actually read or know the meaning of the words you are trying to use.

I dont care if you were harrased, that is none of my concern, i asked very especific questions that you ignored entierly.

You contradict yourself in the same parragraph " I'm not assuming anything..." followed by " And you are right I am assuming." See what i mean? Either you dont read properly or you read what you want creating a rift because if you cant understand what others are saying you will understand what you want, further proving that you are indeed lacking. Besides you were saying somenthing asinine about proof (which i reiterate i said nothing about other than the meaning of the word) yet you dont have proof of your own harrasment because and i quote " I didn't have a tape recorder with me " so wait you are calling me a hypocrite because i provide no proof, but you have no proof of nothing as well?
Im sorry but you dont read,you assume things instead of asking, ignore very especific questions asked at you, perverse the message someone is writting because of said lack of reading skills, the fact that you dont know what an assumption means or what it entails or that you have no idea what the words you are using means.
I asked very clearly some of my concerns and made it clear that i did not wish to discuss your "believes", yet you ignored all of that and the questions i had in regard of the future of healing and turn them into an imaginary attack to you. You do realize that you could have just answered or asked if things where not clear in my questions, instead you played the martyr and the offended card. Pitifull, not worth the time.