The Healer Double Standard

[LariaKirin]

Real quick (...okay, by my standards, anyway).
[...]

The expectations that healers parse high is not that prevalent in the wider community - healers DPS to different degrees at different skill levels. Healing is generally seen as difficult because of the responsibility you have.
The impact of a botched rotation or mechanic on a DPS is significantly less punishing than a missed heal. You have to care about all mechanics in the fight and there's alot more to pay attention to as a healer.
These challenges begin to fade the higher up the skill ladder you go, making the following statement true: "Healing is more difficult and more interesting at lower skill levels. Healing is less difficult and less interesting at higher skill levels".

Healing downtime becomes a problem (earlier) at higher skill levels because once your party knows the entire fight and has done it plenty of times, all that variability and unpredictability goes away. What you are left with is this game of "how many DPS GCDs can I get away with?".

Optimization begins to happen when you know the encounter well enough that it's trivial. The fun of optimizing broils (pun intended) down to a single goal: maintaining uptime on the boss.
For melee, this means taking risks with movement, doing the mechanic as late as possible, etc..
For casters, this means not interrupting casts by slidecasting and pre-positioning. BLM has a simple rotation, but is still one of the most fun jobs to play.
For healers, this means transforming as many healing GCDs into DPS GCDs as you can.

Optimization happens in two ways:
- Individual optimization, which is basically "how many DPS GCDs can I get away with?".
- Group optimization, which is "how many DPS GCDs can WE get away with?", to the point of everyone knowing their 42nd GCD and DPS/tanks going out of their way to save the healers 1 GCD.
In both of these cases, healing the encounter is a non-issue.

By removing "Heal GCD -> DPS GCD", you would be removing an important part of what makes DPSing on healer fun at higher skill levels.
By moving heals to OGCDs, you are exacerbating the healing downtime issues.

This is an exaggeration, because you have not suggested completely removing healing GCDs. We would be in the same place with perhaps different OGCD heals and different GCD heals. So I am left wondering what problem you are trying to solve. That is why I say that the interesting interactions you suggested can happen with what we have now.

The game's longer GCD relative to fight length coupled with the general mechanic lethality makes dropped Healing GCDs too punishing for how easy it is to do.

This is the root cause of those "they can't make content require too much healing" statements you see around. They're correct, but no one ever really seems to elaborate on why because I guess people think it's self-evident.

Why shouldn't dropped healing GCDs be punishing?

I disagree with the second statement. The reason why they can't make content require too much healing is because it is too variable and unpredictable, depending on your party. Player consistency would become more important and because consistency is not a strong point at low skill levels it would make the encounter too difficult.

Encounters would be either too hard at low skill levels or too easy at high skill levels - a product of SE trying to appeal to two groups that have different interests and expectations from the encounters in the game.

Real quick (...okay, by my standards, anyway).
GCD Impact
[...]
Making an explicit split in the time scales for "Healing" and "non-Healing" (however it's done) sets the expectation, up front, that you're going to be able to heal anything unless you run out of resources or hit the wrong button or aren't in range or are dead or whatever.

I want (what I consider) the (boring) bits of Healing in non-optimization-required content (read: DF, leveling dungeons and non-Extremes) to be so simple that someone just reacting to incoming damage with a slowish reaction time can still get their party past the attrition checks.
[...]

By setting that expectation you are exacerbating the downtime problem. OGCD healing is the cause of healing downtime.

No content requires optimization. It happens either consciously (people actively trying to optimize) and subconsciously (people know the encounter well enough that they do things they otherwise wouldn't in their first clear).

I do think healing should be nerfed (especially OGCDs) and it has indirectly through the disproportionate scaling of Health Pools. And while this would increase healing uptime - it would merely inflate it, not fix the problem. I do keep bringing up encounter design because that is the only way of adding unpredictability for higher skill levels, where this healing downtime issue is most prevalent.

[EpicOverlord85]

I miss none of these offensive spells except Bane. Less controller clutter the better.

As a fellow controller user I disagree, I want them all back. Three hot bars was all it took to fit all of my abilities and my pet abilities.

[fantasticm]

Truly wish i could believe that but after SB where whm was barely touched for ages (Planary Indulgence) to just making things bizarre (Emnity reduction on a lot of heals but gave assize 45s cd which negated the emnity reductions), the battle design team do not have a good track record for adjusting healers period (20% balance for 30s anyone), so the bar is extremely low right now for Tuesday.

I wouldn't use WHITE MAGE as an example of SE's responsiveness when it comes to adjusting healers LMAO! Obviously that goes without saying, WHM is the redheaded stepchild. But, historically SE is fairly responsive to SCH and AST complaints (even though they are a little slower when it comes to AST...). Given the amount of complaints on both sides of the pond towards these two jobs, and looking at SE's response to such in the past, I'd say the chances are very high of these two jobs receiving something, especially more than just MP adjustments.

Forgive me, I assumed you were simply referring to SCH and AST receiving adjustments. If you're hoping for anything for WHM other than nerfs, then yes, expect the worst.

[Yuyuka3]

I wouldn't use WHITE MAGE as an example of SE's responsiveness when it comes to adjusting healers LMAO! Obviously that goes without saying, WHM is the redheaded stepchild. But, historically SE is fairly responsive to SCH and AST complaints (even though they are a little slower when it comes to AST...). Given the amount of complaints on both sides of the pond towards these two jobs, and looking at SE's response to such in the past, I'd say the chances are very high of these two jobs receiving something, especially more than just MP adjustments.

Forgive me, I assumed you were simply referring to SCH and AST receiving adjustments. If you're hoping for anything for WHM other than nerfs, then yes, expect the worst.

Sad, but very, very true... which is why I'm so sick and tired about AST and especially SCH complaining. It always leads to the same end, WHM being the worst of the three. But by now, I'm rather sure that's what people actually want...

[Billythepancake]

Sad, but very, very true... which is why I'm so sick and tired about AST and especially SCH complaining. It always leads to the same end, WHM being the worst of the three. But by now, I'm rather sure that's what people actually want...

As a scholar main, I genuinely dont want WHM to be any worse. I think it should keep this DPS lead it has, or maybe even get a bigger one, to justify having a WHM over a sch/ast. I recognize SCH is as strong as ever, but my complaints, and the complaints of most, is not about its effectiveness but rather how engaging it is. At the end of the day, spamming 1 button and occasionally stopping to use an oGCD heal is not engaging. (Especially since you dont even stop that often. )

I genuinely hope they keep WHM strong and engaging, but I dont think it was fair to gut the other 2 healers to achieve that goal, but I also dont think it'd be fair to make WHM weak to reach that goal either. Surely it's possible to have all three healers be effective AND fun to play.

[Trunks]

I genuinely hope they keep WHM strong and engaging

I don't know about "engaging"... WHM is more or less the same it's always been. It's just that they nerfed healing into the ground, so there's actually a bit more use for some of our buttons. But ~90% of the time it's still just as boring as SCH. This is why a lot of WHMs are bristling at all of this complaining: you're now experiencing what our Job has been since the beginning of SB, and y'all are losing your minds. What's frustrating is that our feedback is routinely ignored, yet it's fully expected that SCH and AST will get at least some attention in the next patch. This is exactly what happened in Stormblood. It's just so frustrating.

[Crushnight]

I wouldn't use WHITE MAGE as an example of SE's responsiveness when it comes to adjusting healers LMAO! Obviously that goes without saying, WHM is the redheaded stepchild. But, historically SE is fairly responsive to SCH and AST complaints (even though they are a little slower when it comes to AST...). Given the amount of complaints on both sides of the pond towards these two jobs, and looking at SE's response to such in the past, I'd say the chances are very high of these two jobs receiving something, especially more than just MP adjustments.

Forgive me, I assumed you were simply referring to SCH and AST receiving adjustments. If you're hoping for anything for WHM other than nerfs, then yes, expect the worst.

I honestly hope they do not touch whm at all only ast and sch and for sch only stuff linked to aetherflow like SB energy drain or a potential i'm going to say it dreaded second DoT, ast needs a lot more adjustments.

I have seen them take too long in the past to fix critical healer flaws, 3.0 ast was very weak healing wise were told this very quickly took until 2 weeks after savage to finally get healing potencies buffed that may seem like a short time frame being 6 weeks after expansion launch, but its primary role was left far undertuned for too long, then you do have that 20% balance card which did not see a nerf until SB savage it was a problem from its adjustment in 3.4 it shouldn't have taken to 4.05 to go yea we may have overdid the balance card. Excog was a problem for a fair few patches.

Whm is certainly the one they barely touch but i feel that is because its rarely the problem the other 2 healers are most of the time, sch rained supreme for the majority of this game's lifespan, ast has fluctuated from broken undertuned mess to I BRING THE BALANCE to i'm good thanks for the weaving potential with cards to my god why you do dis, whm has only grown but throughout HW and SB it's growth was not substantial enough to compete with ast darting up higher, i feel that if SE had given whm this level of pdps in SB i doubt it would have been considered as bad but hindsight can't change past try to change the future i guess.

[Jerichai]

I don't know about "engaging"... WHM is more or less the same it's always been. It's just that they nerfed healing into the ground, so there's actually a bit more use for some of our buttons. But ~90% of the time it's still just as boring as SCH. This is why a lot of WHMs are bristling at all of this complaining: you're now experiencing what our Job has been since the beginning of SB, and y'all are losing your minds. What's frustrating is that our feedback is routinely ignored, yet it's fully expected that SCH and AST will get at least some attention in the next patch. This is exactly what happened in Stormblood. It's just so frustrating.

Oh yay, let’s cheer for bad game design because you choose to stick with a job you apparently found boring all those years...

It’s getting harder to take WHMs on these forums seriously...

[Billythepancake]

Oh yay, let’s cheer for bad game design because you choose to stick with a job you apparently found boring all those years...

It’s getting harder to take WHMs on these forums seriously...

I'll be honest, thinking on it now, why is it NOW suddenly a problem WHM is too simple, when it has always been the simple big heals healer? I always thought that was it's selling point, but now suddenly when they dumbed down the other 2 healers and they're complaining (rightfully so, imho) suddenly WHM being too simple is this big issue. Whenever I asked a WHM I met why they mained WHM over SCH/AST one of the top answers was always "I prefer the simplicity" which was fair, I dont think having 1 class like that is a problem at all. That's not to say I don't think WHM hasn't had issues, or hasn't gotten some love it did need, but I dont think it being "too simple" was the problem, when that was always a core part of its identity, that and big heals. I remember i used to main WHM and i thought the same thing, until i gave a scholar a try, and i was in love by the time I hit 40, I found that the complexity of its dps on top of its heals was everything I was looking for in a healer, and ASTs found that juggling buffs on top of healing was the complexity they were looking for, meanwhile WHM preferred the simplicity of their class. I thought that was what it was supposed to be, anyhow. Now they're all too simple, of course most WHMs are happy, because they always preferred simplicity, but those of us who enjoyed the complexity of our classes feel like we've been shafted for no good reason. Yes, WHM should keep its top pDPS, I think that is entirely fair, but it shouldnt do so at the cost of gutting the other 2 healers.

[kidalutz]

I see the problem as follows.

SCH and AST are complaining that thier jobs are no longer engaging. The reality is AST lost nothing to its dps rotation not a single thing for DPS was lost with them. What they're complaining about is the loss of different card effects and being able to prolong utility usage of party buffs to an almost indefinite degree What SCHs are complaining about is the loss of 5 buttons and old energy drain. What both SCH and AST are failing to see is that is the very same crap WHM has had to put up with since the ARR days. Former bestie was the one who talked ime into join ffxiv after I got tired of WoW like myself they main healers in every single MMO they played. I get it I get the complaints I really do SCH in 3.5+ was a blast and AST though nowhere near as enjoyable.( Sorry AST RNG buff cards that get burned for stronger effects usually several draw CDs in a row was more frustrating than engaging SCH was epicly more fun to do. )

That said WHM players have put up with the same thing from the very beginning WHM players asked for the job to be made more fun we got more effin heals and diminishing returns on our one actually good AoE on top of a nerf to its damage. AST and SCH meanwhile were having the time of thier lives and really really didnt seem to give one iota of a care about WHM aside from a passing one aside from those that actually leveled all three and even then it was just to say that yeah WHM is boring. So the fact that there are several WHM mains saying sucks dont it shouldnt even be remotely surprising.

That said I have said before all the endless complaint threads about upcoming changes IF when the new content came out and it was the same as ever that I would join the chorus And so I have kept that promise but those of you that are doing the SHC AST thing need to understand every complaint you have about the classes no longer being engaging was something WHM mains have dealt with since DAY1 I fully agree all the classes should be engaging both in healing and damage /damage mitigation I farther feel all the AoEs that each brings to the table should have some kind of effect to help the party like Holys Stun I think AST AoE should have a Slow and Scholar AoE get a buff that blunts the enemies damage for a few seconds by increasing party members sheilds by a 1/4 of the damage done but the effect only can happen once every 90 seconds I also think that a couple less healing buttons and a couple more dps buttons would help as well. the cards should be all AoE but bring back the effects and have the old tp increase one restore MP slightly faster. give WHM an AoE magic barrier so they can synergize with SCH and AST and for the love of god either remove the stupid water thing or give it back it's damage again.