The Healer Double Standard

[Deceptus]

AST has the same DPS kit, but has a more interesting card system now.

(Emphasis mine) Can't think of too many AST who would agree to this. Their class mechanic got dumbed down. It's essentially a coin flip now. Every card is either Melee or Ranged.

Look I empathize with the healers to a certain degree, SCH especially because it's a significant difference to the way they've always played. But at the end of the day it's probably not that going to be that bad, the core play of a healer is still the same: Put up dot, spam GCD attack, heal as needed. Whether you have 1 dot, or 3 dots, it's all an obstacle, it's just a button to be pressed at some specific point in time. Now you'll simply be pressing something else instead.

Think about having only essentially 2 buttons for damage from level 1 to level 80 because that's healers come ShB, two attacks. That's it. 1 dot and 1 filler spell until dead. I can't think of any sane person who thinks that's enjoyable.

And you know something else, consider this with a grain of salt. Maybe they just want healers that preffered to spend most of the time pushing DPS to just roll a DPS job instead. People like myself that have dabbled in healing, that don't know wtf they are doing and let tanks die in levelling roulette while I set up my dots on sch - well healing will be a bit easier for people like me. (not that I want to be a healer main now). So it's just something else to consider, they are trying to make healers more appealing and simple just like they did with tanks. And both tanks and healers are arguably the most important roles to keep filled.

Healers have to be able to level via the MSQ reasonably somehow. These changes make an already boring MSQ even worse.

[kidalutz]

I don't think that gif states anything definitive. It seems to me that if they stated that they don't like taking away abilities and nerfing stuff, then actually doing so should've been a monumental debate. For lack of a better set of words, I don't think they took gutting SCH lightly.

Although, they certainly haven't been 100% consistent on "bringing the bottom up" on everything, for the most part they seem to be following those ideals. They haven't straight up nerfed a whole lot of things, and in general most of the changes do in fact seem geared towards raising the skill floor.

And I'm not disagreeing with healers on this, particularly SCH - they got gutted af and no one can really deny that. It's just, I don't think they did it to spite anyone. Clearly they have a longer term goal in mind than most of the playerbase considers and we aren't exactly privy to what that is.

they have to look 3 years or so into the future figure whats going to do what in a hundred more item levels the VAST skill gap in players on top of whats going to do what next expansion most players cant even look towards what theyre going to be doing tomorrow let alone a couple years down the road.

[Yuyuka3]

Can't really gut something that barely had substance to begin with.

Also something that got gutted just as bad as SCH now only one expac before. There honestly isn't even anything left for them to gut without making the job complete garbage.

[Brandedblade]

Guess what - To make sure healers are more inline with one another, and to balance them with how they interact with other classes and upcoming mechanic changes/new mechanics in ShB, this will mean that nerfing/buffing will occur. And we will lose skills. This isnt news. This is to be expected. People think that Scholar is some exception to this cause doing some DPS skills that are from ARC defines SCH, and as a result of having those skills trimmed, you no longer are a "Scholar." And then its "Oh boy, the devs are super disconnected! They dont know what we want! The Liars!"
-snip-
Youre not a scholar cause you can cast Miasma or Energy Drain. Youre a scholar cause you can summon a fairy and use fairy + healing skills to restore allies. Thats your class identity - having a fairy and doing things with the fairy. Not set the fairy to auto heal while you spam away a small dps rotation that stems predominately from ARC (yes I know this is an oversimplification.)
-snip-
No matter what anyone says, youre still a scholar, you still have your fairy, and you still do healing. These are what define your class, not that you had a few DPS spells from your base class.

Thank you for articulating my thoughts perfectly, I wish I could hang this up on my wall!

[Brandedblade]

Think about having only essentially 2 buttons for damage from level 1 to level 80 because that's healers come ShB, two attacks. That's it. 1 dot and 1 filler spell until dead. I can't think of any sane person who thinks that's enjoyable.



Healers have to be able to level via the MSQ reasonably somehow. These changes make an already boring MSQ even worse.

You mean instead of juggling two dots I have to juggle one now??!!! Oh the horror, it's almost as if I rolled a healer and knew that my dps kit would be simpler due to the fact I'm a healer!

[Wiccan026]

You mean instead of juggling two dots I have to juggle one now??!!! Oh the horror, it's almost as if I rolled a healer and knew that my dps kit would be simpler due to the fact I'm a healer!

There are several games where healers have interesting kits that don't dumb down the job itself.... all these changes do is dumb down the jobs we played without truly adding anything of substance... this game also requires you to damage if your going through MSQ as the role (which is going to be role locked this time around... which if Im understanding it correctly you have to choose a job to do the Shadowbringer MSQ as and continue it as that. Given how instances play, well let's just say things are sillier by gutting the job the way they did.

Oh and for the record most games that require healers to almost exclusively heal to not handle damage the way this game has... and for anyone thinking there truly going to adjust that for Shadowbringers... you might see a small (and I do mean small) adjustment to damage.. but this game has been built to attract casuals so why anyone thinks there going to make the game "harder" for one role is beyond my ability to think.

[Siccoroa]

Also something that got gutted just as bad as SCH now only one expac before. There honestly isn't even anything left for them to gut without making the job complete garbage.

off the top of my head WHM lost aero 1, the potency on fluid aura, and cleric stance going from hw to sb. I wouldn't call losing a mobility tool, an ogcd, and a busy work button being gutted.

(Emphasis mine) Can't think of too many AST who would agree to this. Their class mechanic got dumbed down. It's essentially a coin flip now. Every card is either Melee or Ranged.

Its essentially a coin flip now. You either draw a balance/spear/arrow all of which do the same thing, or you draw a bole/ewer/spire all of which get fed to royal road. To me it sounds much more interesting to have a guranteed card to play every 30 seconds instead of 1 card per minute at best.

[althenawhm]

WHM and AST didn't get gutted. WHM lost aero 3, but gained afflatus misery, which imo looks a lot more interesting to use and optimize than a button you press every 24 seconds. AST has the same DPS kit, but has a more interesting card system now.

AST cards got incredibly simplified, and WHM was only slightly buffed but please remember that WHM is already kind of bad as it stands right now.

[Kabooa]

(Emphasis mine) Can't think of too many AST who would agree to this. Their class mechanic got dumbed down. It's essentially a coin flip now. Every card is either Melee or Ranged..

As opposed to before, where every card was either Balance or substandard.

[Reiryuu]

off the top of my head WHM lost aero 1, the potency on fluid aura, and cleric stance going from hw to sb. I wouldn't call losing a mobility tool, an ogcd, and a busy work button being gutted.

White mage lost:
- Protect (3.0): Moved from WHM only to role action.
- ProShell- Gave Protect increased Magic Resistance (worked into protect when it moved to role actions)
- Graniteskin Trait: strengthened stoneskin. (3.0)
- Fluid Aura potency
- Stoneskin and Stoneskin II (4.0) replaced with Divine Benison a weaker, cooldown, instant cast, single-target only ability at level 66. 34 levels higher than we got it in 2.0
- Divine Seal (4.0) moved to role actions and renamed Largesse.
- Aero III (5.0)
- Fluid Aura knockback (wtf am I supposed to do with a point blank bind?! Did they give it a range? I doubt it...) (5.0)
- Repose is being moved to role actions. Not that repose has been very useful in 50+ content. (5.0)

That's all I remember off the top of my head.