AST: Card rework alternative

[AvenoMatt]

Personally I'm okay with RR and Spread being gone as they fed into ASTs issues. You'd get an Ewer or Spire and RR just so you could aoe Balance, Spear or even Arrow which gave AST a lot of party utility that they obviously want to nerf. Now you can only get the aoe Balance in the form of Divination that is on a 3min cooldown so I'd say that AST is still a strong job. Spread on the other hand was useful especially if you knew you may need a Bole or Ewer soon but not soon enough that you'd need to use it now and still had time to try to get expanded RR but it also helped players prep before they started a fight to get expanded Balance and hold onto a Balance while they tried to get an expanded RR. As for extending buff effects again just fed into ASTs issues by allows us to keep our buff up longer.

[Pbuckley818]

Oh, I like this thread! Very constructive.

I like the idea of relegating the flat DPS buff to the big AoE buff triggered by the seals. That way Balance isn't removed for all the Balance fiends, and Astro doesn't get entirely lobotomized for the sake of streamlining. The issue is this leaves is with two cards without an effect. The Spire, and the Balance, some people have suggested things like Magic Defense and Direct Hit Rate that the later MIGHT be a good idea, but the former I disagree with. Bole already gives you a flat defensive buff against all damage, all Magic Defense would do is split that buff in two nerfing the bole, and making it and it's counterpart both far to situational. (Not to mention Magic Defense has been all but removed from the game, and for good reason).

Solar
Balance: +10% Direct hit Rate. (The Balance is all about imparting strength so this either had to be a damage buff or a healing received buff, but I made this decision for a reason I will state at the end.)
Bole: Reduces Damage Taken by 10%

Celestial
Spire: +10 to all Healing Potency on Target (The Spire is supposed to be a great Mechanical tower assailed by the god of destruction, it absorbs his lightning to fuel itself. Before this translated into TP over time, now to being better able to absorb "energy" via Healing.)
Spear: +10% Critical Hit Rate.

Lunar
Ewer: MP Refresh
Arrow: +10% Speed

This way every seal has one Support Buff, and One Indirect Damage Buff. If Damage buffs need to be entirely removed, I am not sure I could come up with enough different ideas, though I am sure someone could. Feel free to add onto or take apart this list of effects. Of course Minor Arcanum will have to be redone AGAIN, if we are going to push for these changes. As if we can always just swap these out for a damage what's the point. One Idea's is to make the Lord and the Lady do what they do right now (Though that might end in fishing for the lord), though I don't have any better ideas.

[CorbinDallas]

the global cooldown on malefic is the same as every skill. How do you know it has a shorter cast time and not know that?
WHM has pretty much everything AST has ogc in shadowbringers and then some and the lilies give them what is basically extra swiftcast+0MP versions of their spells every 30s on top of that

Cards is the only thing setting ast apart atm and they are the epitome of tedium in the currently proposed version

That's exactly what I said? Cast time =/= global cooldown. While a WHM using a GCD only spends that entire GCD healing, an AST, with the 1.5s cast on Malefic, can DPS and off globally heal within the same GCD. How do you not know that?

A WHM can literally only weave by using Aero and Regen, and using an off global any other time results in clipping and is a DPS loss, AST doesn't suffer from the same problems and this will be even more apparent in SHB with them gaining even more off global healing, while WHM's new toys are all on the GCD.

[ForteNightshade]

the global cooldown on malefic is the same as every skill. How do you know it has a shorter cast time and not know that?
WHM has pretty much everything AST has ogc in shadowbringers and then some and the lilies give them what is basically extra swiftcast+0MP versions of their spells every 30s on top of that

Cards is the only thing setting ast apart atm and they are the epitome of tedium in the currently proposed version

Uh... what?

Cards aren't even why Astro is currently meta. Collective Unconscious is stupidly OP—providing the strongest regen in the game alongside 10% damage mitigation. Earthly Star is almost double the heal potency of Assize and Essential has a shorter CD than Tetra despite nearly healing tanks to full. Couple this with a faster recast time, thereby allowing it to equal or even surpass White Mage's pDPS, and you have a job straight up better. This is especially true in movement heavy fights, which Alphascape had aplenty. The cards just sealed White Mage's fate as being outright inferior.

[Rahspdoy]

That's exactly what I said? Cast time =/= global cooldown. While a WHM using a GCD only spends that entire GCD healing, an AST, with the 1.5s cast on Malefic, can DPS and off globally heal within the same GCD. How do you not know that?

A WHM can literally only weave by using Aero and Regen, and using an off global any other time results in clipping and is a DPS loss, AST doesn't suffer from the same problems and this will be even more apparent in SHB with them gaining even more off global healing, while WHM's new toys are all on the GCD.

And yet.. the thing most of us who HATE the changes to Astro's, Dont give a flying Lalafel about the DPS changes. Its the gutting of the entire card system down to what is essentially 1 skill you use to buff a single target, that is used to unlock a 2nd skill that is just a aoe version of the first new skill. The UI element may as well not exist for any reason other than to make it 'seem' as if it is more complicated than that.

Which is why i said im just going to level up WHM instead, because if all they are going to degenerate my Astro into is a healer with a single damage buff skill, i may as well play the WHM as it has the stronger heals, and will be just as boring to play as the 5.0 Astro is going to be. But again, stronger heals... so at least im 'gaining' something by switching, rather than loosing everything.

[CorbinDallas]

And yet.. the thing most of us who HATE the changes to Astro's, Dont give a flying Lalafel about the DPS changes. Its the gutting of the entire card system down to what is essentially 1 skill you use to buff a single target, that is used to unlock a 2nd skill that is just a aoe version of the first new skill. The UI element may as well not exist for any reason other than to make it 'seem' as if it is more complicated than that.

Which is why i said im just going to level up WHM instead, because if all they are going to degenerate my Astro into is a healer with a single damage buff skill, i may as well play the WHM as it has the stronger heals, and will be just as boring to play as the 5.0 Astro is going to be. But again, stronger heals... so at least im 'gaining' something by switching, rather than loosing everything.

You mean exactly what you're doing now with Balance? Oh no, the number of useful cards has doubled, RIP Astrologian I guess?

[Rahspdoy]

You mean exactly what you're doing now with Balance? Oh no, the number of useful cards has doubled, RIP Astrologian I guess?

I never use only Balance. In fact, i constantly cycle Balance in order to get a boosted Spear i can throw on a Bard.

Or a boosted Bole to throw on a Tank durring a wall-to-wall pull so i can spend more time watching over the DPS that dont see the AOE's under the mountain of bodies surrounding the tanks.

Or when i know they dont mind it, a Boosted Arrow on a ninja or mage.

I may hold onto a Balance in prep for the early parts of a Boss encounter.

But no.. im not one of the 'meta players' who spend all day, eveyr day, doing nothing but UwU raids back to back to back and doing nothing but 'fishing for balance' the entire time.


The only card that looses its purpose with ShB is Spire. And they could have simply given it some 'other' effect. Same thing with Balance, They should have given 'it' some other effect, and left the 'pure dps boost' thing the Meta-players fish for on the AOE skill.

Instead.. for some reason. They decided to make every, single, card, Balance. And even the AOE buff.. Balance.

They can literally remove the ENTIRE ui and card system, and just replace it with a single +3% single-target buff with a 20-30 second colldown, and the 6% aoe skill with a 3 minut cooldown. And have the exact same effect. Only without the flashy UI element to make it 'seem' as if its more complex than that.

[CorbinDallas]

I never use only Balance. In fact, i constantly cycle Balance in order to get a boosted Spear i can throw on a Bard.

Or a boosted Bole to throw on a Tank durring a wall-to-wall pull so i can spend more time watching over the DPS that dont see the AOE's under the mountain of bodies surrounding the tanks.

Or when i know they dont mind it, a Boosted Arrow on a ninja or mage.

I may hold onto a Balance in prep for the early parts of a Boss encounter.

But no.. im not one of the 'meta players' who spend all day, eveyr day, doing nothing but UwU raids back to back to back and doing nothing but 'fishing for balance' the entire time.


The only card that looses its purpose with ShB is Spire. And they could have simply given it some 'other' effect. Same thing with Balance, They should have given 'it' some other effect, and left the 'pure dps boost' thing the Meta-players fish for on the AOE skill.

So you're knowingly and willingly playing suboptimally and now you're mad at SE because they're making it easier to play your job at an acceptable level? :shrug:

[Rahspdoy]

So you're knowingly and willingly playing suboptimally and now you're mad at SE because they're making it easier to play your job at an acceptable level? :shrug:

No, im willingly, and knowingly playing with ALL of the tools im given to use. And had a hell of a fun time doing it.

And im upset that that 'fun' system that actually set Astro's apart from being a WHM with a pocket full of Braised Pipira's, has been removed to appease a minority % of the playerbase.

[CorbinDallas]

No, im willingly, and knowingly playing with ALL of the tools im given to use. And had a hell of a fun time doing it.

And im upset that that 'fun' system that actually set Astro's apart from being a WHM with a pocket full of Braised Pipira's, has been removed to appease a minority % of the playerbase.

I mean, I've clearly explained why AST > WHM even without cards taken into consideration, so keep ignoring that I guess and keep preaching about your useless cards, I'm obviously not going to change your mind.