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  1. #1
    Player
    Valavaern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
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    44
    Character
    Davion Valavaern
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    I'm on the fence about Verraise. I won't say it necessarily "needs" to be reduced but I have no counterargument for reducing it, other than that it exists purely as group utility,
    Verrraise really does need to come before 50 because, again, SMN shouldn't be better at RDM's job than RDM.

    In either case, however, I disagree with increasing the level of Corps-a-corps and Displacement, since our use of melee skills makes mobility paramount.
    I've no problem with Corp and Displacement staying below 50 too, but doing the hot-swap seemed the best way to balance out skill gains. For 50 and bellow content, I think moving with dualcast provides... reasonable movement.

    Something that would affect balance, however, is that Impact and Moulinet need more adjustments; Moulinet provides less damage per hit than Impact (making it rather disappointing to build up to, and more of a chore to use to dump Mana), while Impact provides less Mana per cast than either of the AoEs that precede it.
    A very simple fix: Just trade the potencies of Moulinet and Impact, and have Impact scale its Mana provision with the number of targets hit (say, 2/2 per target instead of a static 3/3, with a cap if need be). In the latter case, this would prevent Impact from being gamed in single-target like Enhanced Scatter has occasionally been, while any potency-loss in the former would be counteracted by the slight speed increase of the latter.
    Moulinet's Potency is lower, but it also has a faster recast, so it's more potency/sec (in theory). I think a huge QoL change for Moulinet would be to make it a 10-yalm 360 instead of a 15-yalm cone. This would let you much more fluildly dash in and use Moulinet on the same target in the middle of the group you've been targeting with AoE spells.

    The mana gains could use a little buff, no lie. I'd say, make it 10 mana for the elemental starters, and 5/5 for Impact. That'll keep mana gains roughly equal between single target and AoE. With that, I'd be okay if they bumped Moulinet up to 25 mana.

    I think what RDM REALLY could have used is a 'finisher' to do after your Moulinets...
    Like, using Moulinet gives you a stacking buff that lasts for 5 seconds, which let you cast... let's say VerComet. And Vercomet's potency is based on how many stacks you had~

    • Remove the damage from Displacement and Corps-a-corps, and fold it into other damage sources (ie melee combo)
      [...]
    • Remove Engagement completely and replace it with a personal mitigation skill
    Just moving all of Displacement's damage to Corps-a-corps would work fine. All of the other gap-closers do damage, so it'd fit.

    I'd personally like to see Engagement be removed in favor of something like VerShell/VerReflect for party mitigation, or possibly even VerEsuna.
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  2. #2
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
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    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valavaern View Post
    Verrraise really does need to come before 50 because, again, SMN shouldn't be better at RDM's job than RDM.
    Ignoring for a moment that RDM's Raising ability (when it has it) is vastly superior to SMNs...
    You might have had a point if the argument was specifically to reduce Verraise to level 50, or at least below level 60. Putting it below 50, however, is implementing RDM's Verraise spamming in content that wasn't even designed with RDMs in mind, or even that RDMs were necessarily designed to go back and do.
    In that context, it's less that SMN is doing a better job at being a RDM than RDM, and more that RDM is trying to infringe on a position that was originally SMN's.

    For 50 and bellow content, I think moving with dualcast provides... reasonable movement.
    Yes, but we're talking about different kinds of mobility. Dualcast is great as a caster because you have more freedom during movement heavy phases, but the part you're ignoring is that RDM is a hybrid melee job, which means it not only has the responsibilities of a caster as far as boss mechanics are concerned (including standing back and taking care of enemies from a distance) but has the limitations of a melee for its burst phases.
    Dualcast alone doesn't help you close the gap when your mana gauge is filled, it just lowers the caster movement penalty as you inch forward.

    Moulinet's Potency is lower, but it also has a faster recast, so it's more potency/sec (in theory).
    Sure, but that's only in the vacuum of having multiple Moulinets queued up at once while completely ignoring time investment to cast it. For every 100/100 Mana in AoE, or 5 Moulinets, you have 31 builder GCDs, or 15 Impacts.

    Even in your proposal that's 10 Impacts (20 GCDs) for every 4 Moulinets.

    The mana gains could use a little buff, no lie. I'd say, make it 10 mana for the elemental starters, and 5/5 for Impact.
    My concern there is while the overall gain is "roughly" equal to single-target, the starters you propose would have significantly more Mana per-cast than Jolt II (and pull slightly ahead of Verstone/Verfire, too) which could create instances of complicated math about melee time gain versus burst loss per-cast. That same principle is why, for instance, you would want to spend an Enhanced Scatter proc even in single-target.

    Meanwhile, just going the route of "scales Mana gain with number of targets" means we're only using our AoE skills in, at worst, 2-target cleave scenarios. No complications, no math, just pick up the job and go "oh this is how it's supposed to work", which is more in line with the intent of Square's simple "potency" phraseology in the first place.

    I think what RDM REALLY could have used is a 'finisher' to do after your Moulinets...
    Like, using Moulinet gives you a stacking buff that lasts for 5 seconds, which let you cast... let's say VerComet. And Vercomet's potency is based on how many stacks you had~
    And as much fun as that might be, it's not really a necessity. Bear in mind that as of Shadowbringers, we will now have 5 buttons we'll be using for AoE, four of whom are GCDs, which is already comparable to BLMs (ignoring unused skills like Fire II and Blizzard II) and SMNs. Building up a full Mana gauge for such an AoE Verfinisher attack would take longer than most AoE encounters, and in such case you may be better off simply holding your gauge for the next single-target opener, spending Moulinets to prevent overcapping.

    Just moving all of Displacement's damage to Corps-a-corps would work fine. All of the other gap-closers do damage, so it'd fit.
    If we're already working under the principle that movement skills should be saved for movement purposes, I'd rather not be pushed to use Corps-a-corps as a 300+ potency oGCD to be spammed on cooldown.

    Now, if we were talking about Corps-a-corps enchanting to deal more damage when you have 80/80 Mana so you still want to save it for a melee period, then we'd be in business.
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    Last edited by Archwizard; 06-05-2019 at 01:23 PM.