Tank homogenization

[Lyth]

I know that people are jealous of how fun TBN is, but shielding and self-healing are very different mechanics. The first is proactive, the latter is reactive. It's like comparing Zarya and Roadhog.

What they should do is keep DRK thematically consistent around shields and punishing opponents for attacking them, right across to invulns. Give Living Dead to a tank that wants to be thematically self-healing focused.

[Bhearil]

Really hope so, because I expect TBN to get a nerf on 6.0 because is too good compared with the other tanks version, but at the same time is the main reason DRK remains on a good place as a tank, alongside with the Dark Mind magic def niche, compared with the rest

[Absurdity]

It isn't really "too good", it's balanced by drk being on the lower end of dps out of all the tanks, just like warrior does lower dps in exchange for the incredible self-healing.

PLD's and GnB's short mitigation is easily enough for the mechanics that are thrown at you, in exchange for being "not quite as good" as TBN they deal more damage and in the end all you need out of your mitigation is to prevent you from dying.

[Bhearil]

WAR right now is the lowest dps of the tanks with DRK just a bit better (sometimes switch around depending on the fight), but due to homogeneization, tanks dps is a shadow of what it was and the difference between the best and worst tank dps is around 5% between the best and worst. This is not like for example Heavensward where the differences between the lowest and highest tank dps were QUITE noticeable (plus tank damage was MUCH higher in general even getting close to some DPS jobs)

TBN is considered so good because of 2 reasons:
1 It stacks with other defensive skills making the bubble king of defense, plus it scales with tank max HP
2 Self healing on tanks is mostly irrelevant outside of clutch situations which happens mostly on dungeon runs. Of course a PLD and WAR have the best self healing but is not needed as long as you have a proper healer and while WAR self healing helps on AOEing mobs so does TBN popping every time its on cd with 100% certaintly. For good or ill the chances of completing Savage due to a PLD and/or WAR healing are extremely slim

There is a reason why PLD and DRK are the "meta" tanks, and its because tank dps between jobs is no longer relevant due to how close they are between, while tankyness and utility are what define tanks meta now (And DRK position is mostly due to TBN being almost a normal tank defensive CD with just 15 seconds of CD, its basically the best defensive cd right now and you can even use it on others for extra utility)

[Absurdity]

Self healing on tanks is mostly irrelevant outside of clutch situations which happens mostly on dungeon runs. Of course a PLD and WAR have the best self healing but is not needed as long as you have a proper healer and while WAR self healing helps on AOEing mobs so does TBN popping every time its on cd with 100% certaintly. For good or ill the chances of completing Savage due to a PLD and/or WAR healing are extremely slim

There is a reason why PLD and DRK are the "meta" tanks, and its because tank dps between jobs is no longer relevant due to how close they are between, while tankyness and utility are what define tanks meta now (And DRK position is mostly due to TBN being almost a normal tank defensive CD with just 15 seconds of CD, its basically the best defensive cd right now and you can even use it on others for extra utility)

Let me just quote this in regards to NF self-healing (this is from 5.3 btw):




As the table above shows, Raw Intuition has to either cover you from a certain death or mitigate ~54k damage on its own to be worth more than Nascent Flash in the usual scenario.


As for the "meta" tanks, as far as I know it's still GnB and PLD because you gain the extra party mitigation from both, two pretty nice invulns, you do not need the extra mitigation or selfhealing from either TBN or Nascent to survive mechanics and their burst naturally aligns with party buffs leading to higher raid dps.

[Bhearil]

Actually "meta" tanks are PLD (undisputed first) and DRK, with GNB behind as third option (not too far not too close to DRK) and WAR as the least used tank by a considerable ammount, and its been that way since at least 2 patches.

And about the self healing my reasoning stands: TBN is superior in all manners to any other tank equivalent with a ton of synergy with other skills and you can even use it on others. Healing only works if you are still alive after eating the atack and to ease healer work (on a game where healers have insane healing powers compared with most mmos)and mitigation buffs dont stack properly with each other reducing their combined value

And yeah, Walking dead sucks unless you have a coordinated team or a Benepocket WHM no discussion on that

[Raikai]

My only observation on this matter is that the defensive cooldowns are kind of redundant. I'd rather have less of those buttons but making them more available to compensate or with charges.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

My only observation on this matter is that the defensive cooldowns are kind of redundant. I'd rather have less of those buttons but making them more available to compensate or with charges.

Not sure if Troll or not actually tanked anything remotely difficult.

[Vahlnir]

Not sure if Troll or not actually tanked anything remotely difficult.

Yeah, that is very clear. They clearly don't know that multiple defensive CDs do different things and are used in various situations.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Not sure if Troll or not actually tanked anything remotely difficult.

Yeah, that is very clear. They clearly don't know that multiple defensive CDs do different things and are used in various situations.

He is kind of right about the core cooldowns.

• Rampart is a 20% mitigation with a 20s duration on a 90s cooldown.
• Vengeance, Sentinel, Shadow Wall and Nebula are 30% mitigations with 15s duartion on a 120s cooldown.
• Raw Intuition, Sheltron, HoS and TBN are all roughly 20% mitigation with a 6s or 7s duration usable roughly every 30s.

When you only need to use any 1 of them to survive a tankbuster the others are mostly redundant while they are off cooldown and their use order is more determined by tankbuster and tank swap timings.

TBN is pretty much the only short mitigation cooldown that isn't redundant with Rampart and the 30%er as it does not suffer from diminishing returns from stacking (and in fact gets increased returns with stacking). Nascent Flash is also such a good cooldown because it turns a redundant mitigation cooldown into a solid self-heal.