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  1. #1
    Player
    Sylve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,679
    Character
    Lyote Sharaia
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Big-Isaac View Post
    That's not entirely true at all. For the tanking role, you need 3 things
    - taunt. Kinda need some form of that for tank swaps. Technically don't NEED need a taunt button, but for the sake of not making the role a fiddly, micro-manage-y nightmare, it's necessary
    - some way to deal with in-coming damage
    - some way to keep the mobs from hitting who they're not supposed to be hitting
    You just agreed with me, good job.
    They gave all the tanks the tools to deal with those specific situations and then built a gameplay suite unique to each job to differentiate them in play.

    And to throw your WoW comment back at you, mechanics like Stagger for Brewmasters exist to "make up" for the fact that they don't have a Shield. Death Knight bubbles on DS, Druid absorbs etc, all of those mechanics exist for the sake of giving all the Tanks the exact same effect: That of the shield block. Irony here being that during Burning Crusade was the last time the Tanks were unique compared to each other.

    All of the self healing from tanks exist because Death Knights have it, so all the other Tanks have to have big self healing capacity.
    Really, your use of WoW as an example of Tank uniqueness was not all that great, considering the lengths Blizzard have gone to make sure all of them have the same tools.

    Being unique for the sake of being unique doesn't lead to 'glory moments', it just leads to getting replaced by the class that has the tool you lack for the fight. I used that era of WoW to demonstrate it happening.
    Hell, we have an example of just that in XIV already. Pre Tank invuln Holmgang. Paladins could cheese certain mechanics with Hallowed Ground, Warriors couldn't. Warriors got benched.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Jandor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3,479
    Character
    Tal Young
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylve View Post
    You just agreed with me, good job.
    Sure, if you delete the rest of their post.
    (3)
    Last edited by Jandor; 06-03-2019 at 07:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Big-Isaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    98
    Character
    J'enna Vale
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    This text used to be a lot longer. Had to cut it down to get under that stupid 3000 character limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylve View Post
    All of the self healing [...]
    Except for the fact that that's not remotely true. Brewmaster Monk is notorious for their non-existent self sustain, shriveling up and dying in record time without healer attention. Warriors and Druids are better, but not by much. Blood DKs and Demon Hunters are the only tanks that have decent self healing, and needless to say they achieve it in vastly different ways.

    Really, your use of WoW as an example [...]
    Despite Blizzard's attempts to balance the tanks, the way each gets to their mitigation is still vastly different, as I said before.

    Not to mention that the OP is about far more than just the basic defensive CDs. I'm also talking about utility OUTSIDE of the mitigation. Look at all the utility a Brewmaster Monk brings that a Prot Pala does not, and vice versa. Look at what a Blood DK can do compared to a Guardian Druid, etc etc.
    Each comes with abilities that come in handy in specific situations, which leads to those moments of glory I keep talking about.

    Hell, we have an example of just that in XIV already. [...]
    Oh please, like comp cheesing isn't a thing in this game already. Top tier raiders will always math out what's best and go for it. Hence why PLD got the shaft during HW, why WHM was treated as the "unwanted" healer for large parts of HW and SB, and why several DPS jobs have had their turn on the bench.
    Whether it's because one job has 2% higher output or because the job has a skill that makes the fight easier, people are always going to gravitate towards what's best. But why would you rather be in a group - because your job deals 5% more DPS than another, or because your job has a skill that lets it do something really cool in that fight?

    Some of my strongest memories I have of playing MMOs (not even just tanking, but healing and DPS as well) came from instances where I could make a big difference for my raid team just by utilizing my class' unique tools. That's why I find it such a crying shame that FF14's job design barely allows for such things. Being "just another tank" or "just another caster DPS" is lame. Moments where you can make the uniqueness of your job shine are the moments that get you truly attached to your job of choice, infinitely more so than being 2% ahead on DPS.
    In fact, one of my better memories of FF14 comes from this as well - the first time I ran a SB dungeon with a shitty healer. Because I was a PLD, we could still clear all the bosses even though the healer would constantly die. The unique trait of PLD having access to Clemency made a huge difference in that dungeon. Had I been a DRK or WAR, this would not have been possible. That's the kind of unique moments of glory I want to see more of in this game.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Leiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    563
    Character
    Haeen Kazerith
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Problem is, as a result of diversity there are a lot of balance issues.
    I would like to see Warrior return to the stronger self healing tank it used to be, while DRK provided shields at the cost of mana/hp as a means of mitigation.
    The issue is making sure this diversity is balanced which is incredibly difficult.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Gariored's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Do I LOOK like a map?
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Gairovald Dryden
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylve View Post
    Being unique for the sake of being unique doesn't lead to 'glory moments', it just leads to getting replaced by the class that has the tool you lack for the fight.
    exactly.
    but.... unless the class are EXACTLY the same people are still going to find reasons to exclude tank X over tank Y in PF
    (0)
    Last edited by Gariored; 06-09-2019 at 06:36 AM.