Reason i wont be playing Astro anymore after ShadowBringers launches.

[Rahspdoy]

Hey Square Enix.

I know you guys have a lot on your plate with Balance and game-play pacing and such. But i honestly feel like you have sledge-hammered a problem that required only a scalpel.

Especially when it comes to Astro...

Its not that the changes you've made to its 'healing' is terrible, Quite the opposite actually. I LIKE the changes to most of Astro's abilities.

Its the changes to the 'non-healing' side of Astro that i feel you butchered. The Entire card system for Astro has been 98% gutted.

For instance, take below:


On the left, you have Astro's options as of Heavensward and Stormblood 'purely' on the side of how their card system worked. On the right, you have what i could best do to describe what the 'new' card system is based off the media build you let people record their gameplay of. And this is from a person who has PLAYED Astro, and LIKES Astro. (its the one and only healer in FFXIV i enjoy playing). That is how i 'visually' feel you turned Astro's card system into.

The 'new' Card system is only Damage % buff. Nothing else. Just Damage % bonus.
1 card that gives 8% damage bonus to mele dps and 4% damage bonus to ranged dps.
And a 2nd card that does the opposite, 8% damage bonus to ranged dps, and 4% damage bonus to melee dps.
Then you have 3 signs that are randomly assigned to these 2 cards.

Using cards with 3 different signs in a row, unlocks.... get this... a 'better' Damage % buff.

Youve taken a 'fun' Card system that used 6 different cards, and turned it into a 2 card + 3 sign system.

You dont even NEED 6 cards anymore.. in fact i can only guess you left it as 6 cards to make it 'seem' as if there were more options than there actually is. At its 'core', the current changes to Astro = a 50% chance on if we get the Mele or Ranged DPS card, and a 33% Chance on if we get 1 of the 3 signs.

6 cards, down to 2. With 3 'signs' for the sake of the new 'bonus % damage buff' mechanic.

Thats it.. thats the entirety of the Astro card system as of ShadowBringers if you folks go through with the changes that were in the Media preview build. The 'entirety' of the Astro's card mechanic will now be:

1. pull card
2. Check the sign, have you used it yet? yes/no
2.a if yes, cycle.
2.b If no, what class? ranged or mele?
3. Cast card on friend of appropriate clsss ranged/mele.
4. return to step 1.

Thats it.

[Rahspdoy]

ALL of the diversity that many of us Astro players LIKED about the class.. is gone.

When I am currently playing as my Astro, i get to make on the fly choices. Do i want to give this Ninja a Skill-speed Buff... or give him Crit chance?. Do i want to give the Crit-Chance to the bard and instead give the Skill-Speed to the BLM? Or do i want to cycle Balance and get a more powerfull version of the Crit-chance buff and throw that on the ninja?

In ShadowBringers?..... 2 choices. Is my target Ranged or Mele? And have i used this sign before? Thats it.... thats not fun.. thats Dull, thats boring.

The people in the party may as well just bring + Damage % food items with them rather than us. As WHM's will still have better (more potent) 'healing' abilities than we will have.

[Selova]

[QUOTE=Rahspdoy;5001999]snip./QUOTE]

It's not gone. They simply removed the terrible feeling of not drawing balance. I hate to break this to you but spear and arrow were severely worse than balance in every scenario.


With the new changes you're actually going to be getting more use out of the cards you draw, instead of treating the cards as balance fodder. You're focusing too much on the card effects being the same rather than the use they will gain, and mistaking diversity with illusion of choice.

[JowyAtreides]

[QUOTE=Selova;5002042]

snip./QUOTE]

It's not gone. They simply removed the terrible feeling of not drawing balance. I hate to break this to you but spear and arrow were severely worse than balance in every scenario.


With the new changes you're actually going to be getting more use out of the cards you draw, instead of treating the cards as balance fodder. You're focusing too much on the card effects being the same rather than the use they will gain, and mistaking diversity with illusion of choice.

I dunno, Arrow is fun to receive as a Black Mage

[Rahspdoy]

I dunno, Arrow is fun to receive as a Black Mage

Ive done that a few times actually

[Rahspdoy]

It's not gone. They simply removed the terrible feeling of not drawing balance. I hate to break this to you but spear and arrow were severely worse than balance in every scenario.


With the new changes you're actually going to be getting more use out of the cards you draw, instead of treating the cards as balance fodder. You're focusing too much on the card effects being the same rather than the use they will gain, and mistaking diversity with illusion of choice.

spoken like someone who focused purely on damage #, and ignored all other uses of every other card.

Have a bole saved up and get a aoe effect pre-Ultimate durring a raid? Throw it up.. less hp to heal after the blast.

Have a bole saved and a Tank-burster is about to hit? Throw it on the tank.. Less hp to heal.

Recently rezed a fellow healer? Throw Ewer on them so it can stack with their own Lucid dreaming.

ect.

Theres LOTS of ways those of us who played Astro to its 'fullest' used all the options we had.

Now.. we have no options. its a choice between 2 cards, and 3 signs.. all to get a better version of the 1 buff we have to offer the party.

A buff anyone can get via food at its maximum effect without hoping we pull the DPS card instead of the Ranged card.

[Pomp]

[QUOTE=Selova;5002042]

snip./QUOTE]

It's not gone. They simply removed the terrible feeling of not drawing balance. I hate to break this to you but spear and arrow were severely worse than balance in every scenario.


With the new changes you're actually going to be getting more use out of the cards you draw, instead of treating the cards as balance fodder. You're focusing too much on the card effects being the same rather than the use they will gain, and mistaking diversity with illusion of choice.

There's solutions to balance being too good that aren't turning every card into a weaker balance and in the process gutting the improvisational play that attracts people to the class.

[Rahspdoy]

With the new changes you're actually going to be getting more use out of the cards you draw, instead of treating the cards as balance fodder. You're focusing too much on the card effects being the same rather than the use they will gain, and mistaking diversity with illusion of choice.

Just how much 'extra use' are you getting out of 1 card?.. oh wait.. you can make it a 'stronger' version of itself... but its still balance. Still that 1 card.

So... what 'other' use are you getting out of it again?


When a portion of a player-base is focusing purely on 1 option out of 6, that generally means that 1 option out of 6 is to powerful.. The answer to that usually means either making it less powerful so the other options are more enticing, or boosting the other options so they are more enticing. The answer to a 'overpowerd skill' is not usually to turn every single skill into the same overpowered skill.

That is what they have done with Balance. They saw a group of players were using it exclusively, so decided (for some unknowable reason) to simply make every single card balance.

[ForteNightshade]

snip.

It's not gone. They simply removed the terrible feeling of not drawing balance. I hate to break this to you but spear and arrow were severely worse than balance in every scenario.


With the new changes you're actually going to be getting more use out of the cards you draw, instead of treating the cards as balance fodder. You're focusing too much on the card effects being the same rather than the use they will gain, and mistaking diversity with illusion of choice.

Actually, while Spear was weaker than Balance, it wasn't by the significant margin you're insinuating. And in single target uses, it was actually preferred on Bard and Monk. An Enhanced Spear on a Bard in Mages was monstrously strong. Arrow only suffered because gameplay does not synergize well with Skill/Spell Speed. The current changes and addition of the Charge system could change the landscape in that regard. Furthermore, you wouldn't get many complaints from Samurai, Black Mage and even Monk with an Arrow.

Nevertheless, the "illusion of choice" is important to the overall feel. You were excited about Balances because you could get bad RNG. What's exciting now? Every card is guaranteed Balance, but weaker. Without the chance to "fail," the system can never excite. It will always do the same thing, no matter the circumstance. There were plenty of alternatives they could have explored. Perhaps have an ability that guarantees defensive cards or nerf/delete Balance—the actual problem child. That isn't to say this new system can't work. We will have to give it a whirl and see. I will say, it doesn't present itself as fun or engaging though.

They needed to keep the 6 cards for lore reasons, since the 6 arcana are a mayor point in the original job quest. would have been weird to have entire quests dedicated to learning the arcanas and then not actually having their cards anymore. However, that makes me curious how they are going to rework that lore part of the questline. "Ah the spear, it stands for halone and her increasing dmg." "and here we have the spire, representing dmg aswell. And this is Ewer, which contrary to the other arcanas, does represent dmg."

You mean the lore which outright states Bole "offers protection to the weak, defending them from harm." Bit contradictory to what it does in ShB, i.e. buffs Range and Caster DPS. Lore excuses are flimsy at best, and are only ever applicable when it suits the dev team. Case in point, male Keeper Miqo compared to Male Viera. Both are supposedly extremely rare to see in every day life but only one is so rare we can't have them as a playable race. Much like how Male Viera was a development issue (they wanted to make Ronso instead) not a lore issue. The cards are a technical one. They simply don't want to go back and change the quests. So "lore" even if the wording doesn't make much sense now.

[Almostward]

Yeh I also am avoiding Astro once the expansion comes out, and it saddens me cause it's my favorite support to play since Heavensward. Now it's been gutted, and all I have for my cards are 6% balances....i dont want this.

I enjoyed the deck/card mechanic. I enjoyed assessing the situation in a battle to see if certain things were needed. If a RDM, or other healer, where low on MP I would do my best to get a Ewer. If a Tank was taking to much damage you heal them while getting the Bole. If a BRD/MNK were about to open a combo give them a good crit buff. And good ole BLM get the Arrow everytime.

Now we just sit back and throw these mini-balances around mindlessly......Why is this a class if you didnt want the deck mechanic?

Since my cards are gone can you remove the rest and give us a ablility to buff 1 person with a 6% damage buff every 30 seconds that auto targets......cause it seems you dont even care about the cards at this point, and you already made it mindless.