Thread: WHM 5.0 Discussion

Originally Posted by Gemina

*sigh*

Deleting WHM is not any kind of feasible solution. Especially with arguments like an AI fairy is enough to support a full 8-man raid. Many WHM mains, myself included would be heart broken if it was deleted. Even some who don't play WHM at all would be disheartened and upset by this change.

I don't use WHM in higher end content because of its lack of utility, but this doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing the job. On the same token, just because I enjoy the job doesn't mean it is devoid of shortcomings. I can say the reverse for AST. It brings TONS of utility and is a powerhouse healer, yet I can't stand it and don't use it for anything. That ties into the job's design, and just because it's been buffed to the freakin moon doesn't mean I am going to enjoy playing it.

In short, saying the job isn't engaging or doesn't have anything that is desired isn't necessarily true. What is true is WHM doesn't bring anything that AST and SCH doesn't have themselves, plus the other healers can also increase rDPS. It is for that reason alone that they have been left out in the cold since late HW, which in itself is also an issue in the healing community.

My point wasn't that Eos alone can carry a party. My point was that pressing a button in response to a tankbuster or AoE is something that takes no thought, no engagement. Nostalgia for earlier FF titles is literally the only thing WHM has going for it. It won't be engaging to play, and every party would rather you brought something different.

I'd be sad to see it go myself. I'd want a decent WHM that has a reason to exist. But in a way, the job is already gone.

All the healers are bad now.

To address WHM 5.0 itself, it has taken me some time to digest the information for all of our healers. I also had to really sit and allow myself to approach the forums once in a rational mental state as I was quite upset initially with changes to healers in general.

When it comes to WHM, I found myself not really all that disappointed. However, I also wasn't jumping through my ceiling either. Ok, that's not entirely true; I was quite happy with the wings xD. Anywho, it was very similar to my thoughts about WHM going into 4.0. My issues with WHM pertain more to a passive lily mechanic, clipping and Aero 2, and SoTL2. I didn't have that big of a problem with their lack of utility because what matters to me most is enjoyment playing a job. Having a healer I enjoy for high end content is important as well, and since I enjoy SCH I had a meta healer as an option. Thank goodness.

The biggest disappointments with WHM is taking away Aero 3, which is one of my favorite skills and animations in the game. Repose and Fluid Aura; not necessarily their changes which make zero sense, but that they are still here. These two skills are WORTHLESS. It is also sad knowing that one of our non-customizable role skills is taken up by this skill that has no place. PI is basically a AoE heal potency boost on CD. Not bad, but as a level 70 skill it lacks umph. That's really about it as far as gripes go.

I liked just about everything else. Dia is a true DoT being your highest potency per GCD at 720 total. With Aero 3 gone this needed to happen for ST encounters. Losing the AoE isn't that bad since trash packs and adds rarely survived the entirety of its duration. Everyone hated the animation for Stone IV, so 72+ they'll no longer have to worry about that.

Good riddance to SoTL2, but shame it was not replaced with something more useful. I suppose there's enhanced Asylum, but this healer bubble still falls short of the others. I'm also not going to gripe about our skills that go mostly unchanged. DB, Assize, Holy, Tetra and Bene are all still here doing what they do best.

The new lily mechanic is much better than what it is now. I understand why the lily heals are not ogcd, but at least they are instant. Giving WHM their own version of Foul every 90 seconds will very likely put them at the top of healer pDPS. Even at maximum fall off, this skill is still going to have 450 potency. Then we get to drink a red bull @80. I'm actually really excited about Temperance. However, the effectiveness of the raid wide damage reduction is yet to be seen, but I do wish the wings gave potency buffs all around including their offensive skills. We have to remember that straight up damage reduction is better than increased defense by the same percentage. 10% for both incoming physical and magical damage is nothing to scoff at. That is basically the AoE TBN DRKs are wanting. It might not be the increase to rDPS that everyone wants, but at least they have some utility now.

WHM Grade: B-

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

My point wasn't that Eos alone can carry a party. My point was that pressing a button in response to a tankbuster or AoE is something that takes no thought, no engagement. Nostalgia for earlier FF titles is literally the only thing WHM has going for it. It won't be engaging to play, and every party would rather you brought something different.

I'd be sad to see it go myself. I'd want a decent WHM that has a reason to exist. But in a way, the job is already gone.

As I said before what matters is that you enjoy playing it. That matters more than any meta requirement in the game. When you say it is not engaging or doesn't require a lot of thought to heal a tank buster, why are you applying that to just WHM? That same whack-a-mole concept applies to all healers.

Only meta parties are going to require that you be a healer other than WHM. Dungeons, NM raids, 24-man and even EX primals, no one cares what you bring. If the only content you find engaging is savage, then it is understandable why you have an issue with WHM. But you have to ask yourself, is the problem the actual job, the meta, or perhaps both? As I previously pointed out, simply giving WHM the utility the meta desires doesn't magically fix the other issues the job has, nor will it suddenly make it enjoyable to someone who already dislikes playing WHM.

WHM is still the loveable iconic FF healer it always has been. It's the meta that doesn't love it because it doesn't do anything to improve "muh deeps".

Originally Posted by Gemina

As I said before what matters is that you enjoy playing it. That matters more than any meta requirement in the game. When you say it is not engaging or doesn't require a lot of thought to heal a tank buster, why are you applying that to just WHM? That same whack-a-mole concept applies to all healers.

Only meta parties are going to require that you be a healer other than WHM. Dungeons, NM raids, 24-man and even EX primals, no one cares what you bring. If the only content you find engaging is savage, then it is understandable why you have an issue with WHM. But you have to ask yourself, is the problem the actual job, the meta, or perhaps both? As I previously pointed out, simply giving WHM the utility the meta desires doesn't magically fix the other issues the job has, nor will it suddenly make it enjoyable to someone who already dislikes playing WHM.

WHM is still the loveable iconic FF healer it always has been. It's the meta that doesn't love it because it doesn't do anything to improve "muh deeps".

My issue is that the other healers have at least SOMETHING else that's engaging, like cards or pet management. Even if those were shafted pretty hard. It's not just about what's the best for the meta. With DPS being simplified even more than it already is, I worry that WHM will be a total snoozefest to play. As for the meta, at least if it's a desired job I can find enjoyment in knowing I'm doing my best to help my party.

As it is, it feels like I would just be a burden on my party and I wouldn't even have a good personal reason for doing so. It's useful to neither the party nor the player, and at that point it's done little to justify its existence.

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

My issue is that the other healers have at least SOMETHING else that's engaging, like cards or pet management. Even if those were shafted pretty hard. It's not just about what's the best for the meta. With DPS being simplified even more than it already is, I worry that WHM will be a total snoozefest to play. As for the meta, at least if it's a desired job I can find enjoyment in knowing I'm doing my best to help my party.

As it is, it feels like I would just be a burden on my party and I wouldn't even have a good personal reason for doing so. It's useful to neither the party nor the player, and at that point it's done little to justify its existence.

The lily mechanic is no longer passive. It won't be as engaging as micro managing a fairy or cards, but it is a new resource that has several new and powerful abilities locked behind it, so it is something else you are going to have to pay attention to. WHM will never have a gimmick like SCH or AST. That is not the vision the dev team has for this job. When it comes to simplification of DPS, WHM suffered the least from these changes if at all compared to SCH and AST who both got hit, hard.

You're not going to be a burden on any party outside the meta. Even inside the meta, you are only a burden if a SCH or AST is present of equal skill level. The utility they bring doesn't mean jack if they cannot perform the very basics of their role, in which case they would be quite stupid to take a SCH or AST who can't cleanse and keep people alive over a WHM who can. If you narrow your vision to 'WHM must bring rDPS or they don't deserve to exist', then it will never be enjoyable no matter how good they design it.

I just hit level 10...I’m a little concerned about continuing the WHM path because of all of this conversation. I want to be useful in endgame, and if I’m a healer I don’t want to dps. Is whm for me?

Originally Posted by Gemina

You're not going to be a burden on any party outside the meta. Even inside the meta, you are only a burden if a SCH or AST is present of equal skill level. The utility they bring doesn't mean jack if they cannot perform the very basics of their role, in which case they would be quite stupid to take a SCH or AST who can't cleanse and keep people alive over a WHM who can. If you narrow your vision to 'WHM must bring rDPS or they don't deserve to exist', then it will never be enjoyable no matter how good they design it.

Well, the elephant in the room says otherwise from what happened when AST got their cast time lowered to 1.5 for fluency with Cards.

Let’s also not forget the huge damage buff Cooldown of Sleeve Draw, which even with its CD of 3 minutes, it can Stack buffs on people very fast with the 3s Draw in opener. You’d be redrawing to get the right Arcanum for Divination which can be a 6% rDPS increase. Let alone, the arcana is a 6% DPS increase for one which I understand is a step down; given that Malefic IV is 250 potency, it’s only 50 weaker than WHM’s. The damage utility is going to be useful even if the duration is 15s, and it’ll be what makes AST strong once Divination’s duration is finalized.

Let’s also remember WHM has GCD issues when trying to use oGCDs(not including potential overheal from after one of the Afflatus heals, but everything WHM does most of the time is on the GCD).

The other thing I’m curious about during the healer section was when they went over WHM...did Yoshida day something regarding WHM’s Lilies potentially increasing cast speed or something?