Thread: WHM 5.0 Discussion

Originally Posted by Ceasaria

I will need more analysis but I can see already WHM/SCH become meta for prog and speedkill.
AST will be just too bad now : pdps will be so bad, raid buff will be uninteresting to manage and not worth the effort, CO and CU nerf, shields as always inferior to those from SCH + can't stack with them while they have a ultimate skill which allow to play double stance for a limited time (so bye bye AST/SCH). AST will have nothing valuable in ShB.

I've heard AST's ultimate skill will allow their shields to stack with SCH's, though I haven't seen this confirmed. Even if it isn't true, AST isn't in so bad a place that it should be passed over for WHM. 6% is better than 0%.

Also, AST and SCH will almost certainly see buffs and QoL changes before the first raid tier drops, so we can look forward to another SCH/AST meta for the next 2 years... maybe more!

Originally Posted by fantasticm

I've heard AST's ultimate skill will allow their shields to stack with SCH's, though I haven't seen this confirmed.

We can hope. If this is what knocks the SCH/AST meta down onto WHM/AST I will laugh so hard.

Originally Posted by fantasticm

I've heard AST's ultimate skill will allow their shields to stack with SCH's, though I haven't seen this confirmed. Even if it isn't true, AST isn't in so bad a place that it should be passed over for WHM. 6% is better than 0%.

Also, AST and SCH will almost certainly see buffs and QoL changes before the first raid tier drops, so we can look forward to another SCH/AST meta for the next 2 years... maybe more!

Yeah, that's what I fear as well, and what I think people grossly tend to overlook for some reason. But, hey. Tell us to just 'wait and see' and 'stop whining, you look oh-so amazing now', then after the other two got buffed enough to erase any miniscule advantage WHM had that we are 'fine after all, even if you are the weakest of the three, but not by much, honest! So stop complaining already' and then, after SCH and AST got over-buffed into high heaven again, finally 'yeah, no, sorry, but WHM is trash and should be deleted'.

And when the cycle repeats itself in 6.0, it will be squarely back to 'wait and see'.

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

I disagree Whm/Sch yeah no. It looks to be the same Astro/Sch if what was shown so far is true.

Yes Whm wasn't hit as hard but not much was improved upon. Whm still offers very little but pure healing, and pure damage and that worked so well.

I really hope something is shown for all three healers.

I mean. It's hard to gut a job that was already stripped of everything unique it had, so no wonder we weren't hit as hard by the hammer as the others - since the hammer already came down super hard on us an expansion before. And we didn't really get any compensation at all... so yeah, AST/SCH it is and anyone who thinks differently is delusional.

I just hit level 10...I’m a little concerned about continuing the WHM path because of all of this conversation. I want to be useful in endgame, and if I’m a healer I don’t want to dps. Is whm for me?

Originally Posted by AmbienNightmare

I just hit level 10...I’m a little concerned about continuing the WHM path because of all of this conversation. I want to be useful in endgame, and if I’m a healer I don’t want to dps. Is whm for me?

For the record, you aren't ever 'required' to DPS as a healer but you are recommended to and expected to in times where healing isn't needed, because otherwise all you are doing is standing around.

Originally Posted by AmbienNightmare

I just hit level 10...I’m a little concerned about continuing the WHM path because of all of this conversation. I want to be useful in endgame, and if I’m a healer I don’t want to dps. Is whm for me?

Any healer at this point is expected to DPS when there's no healing to be done (which is often). The level of DPS moving into the expansion is not currently known as the devs have said they wanted to lower the healer dps requirements. But in SB unless you were in a very good group chances are you wouldn't be able to clear quite a few engame encounters without DPSing as healer. And if your group is very good they would probably expect you to dps in the first place. In ultimate you need to DPS significantly and will very likely need to continue DPSing a lot moving forward into ShB (for ultimates).

Originally Posted by Gemina

You're not going to be a burden on any party outside the meta. Even inside the meta, you are only a burden if a SCH or AST is present of equal skill level. The utility they bring doesn't mean jack if they cannot perform the very basics of their role, in which case they would be quite stupid to take a SCH or AST who can't cleanse and keep people alive over a WHM who can. If you narrow your vision to 'WHM must bring rDPS or they don't deserve to exist', then it will never be enjoyable no matter how good they design it.

Well, the elephant in the room says otherwise from what happened when AST got their cast time lowered to 1.5 for fluency with Cards.

Let’s also not forget the huge damage buff Cooldown of Sleeve Draw, which even with its CD of 3 minutes, it can Stack buffs on people very fast with the 3s Draw in opener. You’d be redrawing to get the right Arcanum for Divination which can be a 6% rDPS increase. Let alone, the arcana is a 6% DPS increase for one which I understand is a step down; given that Malefic IV is 250 potency, it’s only 50 weaker than WHM’s. The damage utility is going to be useful even if the duration is 15s, and it’ll be what makes AST strong once Divination’s duration is finalized.

Let’s also remember WHM has GCD issues when trying to use oGCDs(not including potential overheal from after one of the Afflatus heals, but everything WHM does most of the time is on the GCD).

The other thing I’m curious about during the healer section was when they went over WHM...did Yoshida day something regarding WHM’s Lilies potentially increasing cast speed or something?