Disappointment of Shoha/Feedback. Samurai Lv80 Skill.

[Leonus]

well...

That's the thing, you don't need 5 stacks to make it worth it,at least I don't take it that way. Meditate was already worth it for just getting at least a shinten a bit earlier, or having enough kenki to burn guren after downtime if the boss left the arena and you sat at 30 kenki. Where I see shoha becoming worth it, if it doesn't animation lock you, is 3 meditation stacks. You get a "free" shinten, and 200 extra potency from shoha just for meditating. 520 potency at least (without buffs). Shoha costs you nothing but meditation stacks, and you get kenki for meditating anyway.

It might still be worth it even you're close to being capped on kenki and meditating puts you at 100, but you still get meditation stacks. If I can, at the very least, get 1 shinten out of meditation during downtime where I can do nothing but sit around anyway, it's worth it. I could be wrong, but that's how I take it. I know a few dungeons, where I can get 3 meditation stacks.

Underwhelming stil,? Absolutely, bit it's still rewarding. Just not soammable like people want it to be.

[jazo]

Maybe if the stacks generate like... dunno 10,25,50% change if you use Higanbana,Tenka or Midare so you can build ith on normal rotations and let the meditate like they say, so Shoha can me used more often (maybe even lock it to 5 stacks only)

[xxvaynxx]

That's the thing, you don't need 5 stacks to make it worth it,at least I don't take it that way. When it becomes meditate was already worth it for just getting a shinten a bit earlier, or having enough kenki to burn guren after downtime if the boss left the arena a d you sat at 30 kenki. Where I see it becomes worth it, if it doesn't animation lock you, is 3 meditation stacks. You get a "free" shinten, and 200 extra potency from shoha just for meditating. 520 potency at least (without buffs).

It might still be worth it even you're close to being called on kenki and meditating pits you at 100, but you still get meditation stacks. If I can, at the very least, get 1 shinten out of meditation, it's worth it. I could be wrong, but that's how I take it. I know a few dungeons, where I can get 3 meditation stacks.

I really hate when people say its "free" damage because that can apply to anything but aside that.
You need at least 4 or 5 stacks of meditate to make it worth it.
1 stack is a pathetic 50 pot
2 Stack is 100, lower than your combo starter
3 stack is 200, weaker than seigan which I already stated that does almost next to nothing to really bump your dps up that much.
now the 4th stack is where it gets useful, THAT's a free shinten...rather, the old potency of it.

But getting a 4th stack is just as hard as getting a 5th stack due to server ticks.

And again you're looking at it from a pretty plan view.
You get that weak 200 potency every 60secs, a minute.

and I'm not talking about the meditation skill itself so the point about getting a shinten out it not needed as I'm talking about shoha.

Also getting a 3 stack on a boss in a dgn is not going gain you much.
You're looking at potency at face value, you have to see what shoha does at the lower stack over the course of a fight.
With this being fight dependent it'll be less frequent that even seigan.

I'll use my os10.

I got 7 seigan which was 200 at the time, the same pot as 3 stack shoha.
My overall dps at that fight was 71191.1k and my seigan gave 37.8k, if I were to take away that 37.8k it would be 7081.3. Not too bad right? shoha won't be that bad then right?

Wrong, realistically; you would NEVER get that many meditates to go up to 3 stacks everytime or even get 7 meditates.
So Since I'm bad at math I'll use one of my os9 because I got two seigans in there and it gave me a wopping 11.3k out of a 8.125.5 dps overall and you know how many meditates you can even get in os9? One.
That fight has too much uptime, with fights that much uptime. Shoha is a dead skill.

Still think the way shoha works is a good skill? or "rewarding"?

((if you think its underwhelming why are you defending it? seriously...))

[Leonus]

stuff

We don't agree, and that's fine. I get it, you won't use it as often as seigan. I'm not comparing it to seigan though, as the only thing I have to do is meditate during downtime and I'm see it as I'm being paid to do that anyway.

1 stack... I wasted meditate.
2 stacks.. well I get 100potency to throw and with 5 more kenki (from rotation) I get a 320 + 100 just because.
3 stacks.. a shinten + 200 shoha
4 stacks.. 1 attack from 2 shinten + 300 shoha
5 stacks... 2 Shinten ready upon boss return + 500 shoha.
You already see all this though, I'm sure.

It's really not that bad, in my opinion. It's underwhelming, I defend it, because from my point of view it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. I don't have to anticipate incoming damage like seigan, all I have to do is meditate during a decent downtime window. It's okay to disagree as well.

I don't understand why you hate the term "free damage" when that's... what it is. Seigan is free damage, if. Gonna take damage anyway, why not use it and do a bit more damage myself. It doesn't do much, but that's how I see it. I get we won't use it as often as people would like though.

[xxvaynxx]

We don't agree, and that's fine. I get it, you won't use it as often as seigan. I'm not comparing it to seigan though, as the only thing I have to do is meditate during downtime and I'm see it as I'm being paid to do that anyway.

1 stack... I wasted meditate.
2 stacks.. well I get 100potency to throw and with 5 more kenki (from rotation) I get a 320 + 100 just because.
3 stacks.. a shinten + 200 shoha
4 stacks.. 1 attack from 2 shinten + 300 shoha
5 stacks... 2 Shinten ready upon boss return + 500 shoha.
You already see all this though, I'm sure.

It's really not that bad, in my opinion. It's underwhelming, I defend it, because from my point of view it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. I don't have to anticipate incoming damage like seigan, all I have to do is meditate during a decent downtime window. It's okay to disagree as well.

I don't understand why you hate the term "free damage" when that's... what it is. Seigan is free damage, if. Gonna take damage anyway, why not use it and do a bit more damage myself. It doesn't do much, but that's how I see it. I get we won't use it as often as people would like though.

There are times you get a one tick of meditate a lot. Os12 M/F is one, when they do the dashes. You can always meditate on the shield phase but why would you do that when you can hit the Female in the middle...assuming you can hit her anyway...but anyway that's besides the point. Its honestly really hard for you to see what I'm talking about when you don't do any savage content so its not easy for you to understand where I'm coming from from higher end fights so I'll stay away from those.

One tick of meditate is not a waste btw, more so if you won't be using it any time soon like in many fights.

Honestly, if you still wish the defend this skill even after I gave you the math of how much it will give you in terms of dps then its clear you don't really care about your dps that much and just defend it for the sake of it, since even yourself said it underwhelming and in this case, the argument is pretty much pointless.

Agree to disagree, have fun using a skill you will hardly even touch in 80% of fights you prefer to do because you don't do any type of Raids or EX primals much.

For now, its too early for this skill to change and the rest of us that wants something better have to wait until the balancing patch which is most likely after or before savage comes out.

I'm glad there are more people against this skill than for it so there is still a chance it'll get adjusted, even buffing it will make it better but I prefer a overhaul like how shake it off was changed.
((Keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you, it just boggles my mind people are ok with this skill when they main samurai, but the samurai's that defend it are the ones that do nothing but dgn's))
Just wanted to point out, seigan isn't free damage because it uses a resource and shoha isn't free since you need meditate.
Free Damage would be something like your assassinate skill....which I would rather have over shoha.

[Inuk9]

In my opinion the lv 80 skill should be Hissatsu: Senei instead of Shoha

[Leonus]

Agree to disagree, have fun using a skill you will hardly even touch in 80% of fights you prefer to do because you don't do any type of Raids or EX primals much.

I feel like you made the assumption that I'm a pretty weak pplayer because you didn't see Savage and extreme clears on my profile. That's fair, as that's all you had to go off of, and you don't really care why that's the case. Then you appear to talk down to me, as though I wouldn't comprehend harder content.

I'm going to ask you to please not do that, I am a capable player. I have only been away from the game for an extended period of time due to other circumstances. I also gain and lose interest with the eb and flows of the game as a whole. I can, and have cleared Savage content in the past, been a raider, and cleared EX primals. Ultimate trials are a new thing since I've been away)

Though maybe you're right, it might not be right for me to back Shoha because I play on and off depending on my interest level in the game. I do know one thing though, I am good at what I do when the game has my attention. I plan on getting back to form come raid time in ShB. How long the game holds my attention is up to the content.

I wasn't basing the usage solely off of dungeons. It's wierd being talked down to because I missed most progression during an expansion and wasn't part of a raid group. It's a new feeling, gets me amped to get back into it (which was the plan all along anyway.)

Anyway, okay I get you point about free damage. However, if you were going to take damage or meditate anyway, why not use the skills? It's like being paid to do something I was already going to do, or for something that was already going to happen.

[xxvaynxx]

I see you're talking down at me, which is fine since I didn't do Savage this tier ( as Stormblood about 6 months I was deployed ) and just got back into the game. I understand Savage content though.

The problem is, you assume I wasn't doing it before, that I was never into it. You also act as though I am incapable of doing extreme primals or Savage content. That's a pretty shitty way to be. It's cool though, as I'll be getting back into extremes and raiding. Sorry I had other things in life to attend to during stormblood's run.

((Keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you, it just boggles my mind people are ok with this skill when they main samurai, but the samurai's that defend it are the ones that do nothing but dgn's))

I wasn't talking down or saying you were incapable, either way. I apologize if it came off that way, Not trying to put down anybody.

I was just saying since you don't do it, you won't see how minuscule the damage is to your over all dps over the course of a fight compared to a Dungeon Boss Fight or 24man Boss, since Savage Fights and EX primals are longer than other things and have a bunch of stuff that have downtime and uptime.

I wasn't assuming because I checked so I know what you had clear...at least uploaded anyway.

But Sorry again, wasn't trying to put you down or anything.

[Leonus]

((Keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you, it just boggles my mind people are ok with this skill when they main samurai, but the samurai's that defend it are the ones that do nothing but dgn's))

I wasn't talking down or saying you were incapable, either way. I apologize if it came off that way, Not trying to put down anybody.

I was just saying since you don't do it, you won't see how minuscule the damage is to your over all dps over the course of a fight compared to a Dungeon Boss Fight or 24man Boss, since Savage Fights and EX primals are longer than other things and have a bunch of stuff that have downtime and uptime.

I wasn't assuming because I checked so I know what you had clear...at least uploaded anyway.

But Sorry again, wasn't trying to put you down or anything.

I know you checked my profile, which is fine, I'm not mad at that. The assumptions were some of the other things directed at me in the post you made. Or at least, regardless of your disclaimer, came off that way.

It's human nature, I've accepted that and don't really expect it to change.

However, you saying I don't care about my DPS struck a nerve pretty hard, seeing as I do in fact pride myself on it. I'm just not mad at Shoha.

So one tick of meditate isn't a waste, please explain your view. I was coming from more of a, if I got downtime in a fight where I could have gotten more meditate stacks by being attentive, I wasted meditate.. or "not take advantage of" would be a better phrasing what I meant.

[xxvaynxx]

I know you checked my profile, which is fine, I'm not mad at that. The assumptions were some of the other things directed at me in the post you made. Or at least, regardless of your disclaimer, came off that way.

It's human nature, I've accepted that and don't really expect it to change.

However, you saying I don't care about my DPS struck a nerve pretty hard, seeing as I do in fact pride myself on it. I'm just not mad at Shoha.

So one tick of meditate isn't a waste, please explain your view. I was coming from more of a, if I got downtime in a fight where I could have gotten more meditate stacks by being attentive, I wasted meditate.. or "not take advantage of" would be a better phrasing what I meant.

Because one tick of meditate gives you 10 kenki; thats two GCD's from haza to shifu or jinpu, making you able to give out an extra shinten or even seigan faster than you would which would be a gain. Shinten is a 300, now 320 pot attack.



If shoha first tick was at at least 200 pot then it would actually be a bit better but it would make samurai maximize very clunky due to the skill being based on server tick.

Its clear SE only wants this skill to be used only during downtime, which is why the first stack is 50. They don't want people using meditate in the middle of their GCD because Meditate I believe stops auto attack which is pretty big if you keep missing your auto's for people keep trying to fish for the first tick.

You might say why people would try to use meditate in the middle of your GCD anyway and just wait until there is downtime? Well reason is, if you know the fight and you know Downtime isn't for another 2 mins of the fight. Why hold it? it'll be a dps lost if you did. Your meditate will be up by then again.

But anyway, the 10 kenki gained from meditate is little sure but any type of kenki gain is a dps increase.