Why was Living Dead not removed?

[WhyAmIHere]

Yeah I forgot about it short cool down. That was totally my bad. Now what would you rate them all if they all had a 2 min CD? ((Yes I know Holmgang has a 3 min cool down.)) I just want to know what people would rate them if they all got a buff to 2 min cooldown.

Hypothetically if all invulns shared a 2min recast?
Hallowed->SBolide->Holm->LD.

[MrThinker]

Yeah I forgot about it short cool down. That was totally my bad. Now what would you rate them all if they all had a 2 min CD? ((Yes I know Holmgang has a 3 min cool down.)) I just want to know what people would rate them if they all got a buff to 2 min cooldown.

Well, in that case, ofc Hallowed Ground would be OP. There might be a bit of toss up between Holmgang and Superbolide, I personally think Superbolide would edge out Holmgang since it is just a lesser Hallowed Ground, but Living Dead would still be the worst, simply because of 'heal or die'.

Now if they were to actually put all on the invulns on the same CD.... they would need to put them all on the same level, which just then gets rid of job identity imo.

[Kaedan]

I do not know why people keep bring up Holmgang. When you look at all 4 tank ults. Hollowed Ground, Superbolide, Holmgang and Living dead. You can see Hollowed Ground is the best. It has the 10 seconds of inv with no down side to it. No healing requirements like the other three. Superbolide is a mix between Holmgang and Hollowed Ground. Just you start at 1 hp. Which between the tanks using their self healing and the healers using heals/hots over those next 10 seconds of inv. I would think it "COULD" be better then Holmgang. Not saying it is better but their is that chance. Holmgang to me is pretty bad just like living dead. 6 seconds of you sit at 1 hp. Honestly I wish tank ults where more like a super rampart. Making it so Reduces damage taken by like 60% - 80%.

Right now tank ult are ether, You can not take damage or you can die. Yet you still will eat 100% of all incoming damage. Can we have something more like. You eat the damage and then send a percent of the damage back to the boss. That honestly would fit Warriors and Dark Knights better. Warriors version can reduce more damage and deal less damage to the boss. Dark Knights would be reducing less damage and doing more to the boss.

HUH?

Holmgang is by far the best of the tank's invuln skills and one of the reasons WAR makes the best MT.

The short cooldown of Holmgang makes eating tankbusters a joke. You can also cheese mechanics because of how short it is. If they were ever going to homogenize the invuln skills, it would be giving everyone Holmgang-like invulns, not Hallowed Ground.

[WhyAmIHere]

I do not know why people keep bring up Holmgang. When you look at all 4 tank ults. Hollowed Ground, Superbolide, Holmgang and Living dead. You can see Hollowed Ground is the best. It has the 10 seconds of inv with no down side to it. No healing requirements like the other three. Superbolide is a mix between Holmgang and Hollowed Ground. Just you start at 1 hp. Which between the tanks using their self healing and the healers using heals/hots over those next 10 seconds of inv. I would think it "COULD" be better then Holmgang. Not saying it is better but their is that chance. Holmgang to me is pretty bad just like living dead. 6 seconds of you sit at 1 hp. Honestly I wish tank ults where more like a super rampart. Making it so Reduces damage taken by like 60% - 80%.

Right now tank ult are ether, You can not take damage or you can die. Yet you still will eat 100% of all incoming damage. Can we have something more like. You eat the damage and then send a percent of the damage back to the boss. That honestly would fit Warriors and Dark Knights better. Warriors version can reduce more damage and deal less damage to the boss. Dark Knights would be reducing less damage and doing more to the boss.

when it comes to invulns, quantity > quality.
Holmgang has more casts per encounter than any other. the healing requirements are trivial for every invuln except Hallowed and Walking Dead, being non-existent and fully demanding, respectively.
hence why Holm is the best, and LD is the worst.

[Otorinth]

I think the best way to fix Living Dead while keeping it's flavor is to cut out the absolutely necessary healer intervention for it. Make it to where it require's the DRK's encounter knowledge to be on point, but still working as an "Oh shite" button that doesn't read you your last rites 9/10 times. Here's a rough example of how I'd request for it to be changed:

Living Dead:
Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, your status will change to Walking Dead. If HP is not reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, HP is reduced to 1 and the effect fades.
Living Dead Duration: 6

While under the effect of Walking Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1. Outside sources of spell and ability Healing will have no effect on you while under the effect of Walking Dead. 100% of damage taken while under the effect of Walking Dead is returned to you as healing when the effect fades.
Walking Dead Duration: 10

[Danelo]

Love it, worth asking for, doubt SE would ever do it. I hate being a pessimist but...

[TouchandFeel]

snip

That is an interesting idea, however I fear it could potentially leave you in a vulnerable spot.
Let's take the most common situation in which an invulnerable ability is used. A big buster is about to come which would normally kill you so you pop LD which reduces you to 0 hp and triggers Walking Dead. Then after that there tends to be a bit of a lull in incoming damage with mainly just fluff damage from a few autos, meaning that you regain little hp from the proposed Walking Dead effect. Then when the effect wears off a healer has to quickly react and heal you up or what little hp buffer you have could quickly get chewed through and you die.

I understand what you were going for but the part about not being able to be healed by others in Walking Dead, DRK's lack of proper burst healing and the likeliness of taking negligible damage leaves the proposed changes still problematic, far more complicated and at a discernible disadvantage compared to the other invulnerable abilities.

All in all, I really feel that we should shed this idea that DRK's invulnerability ability has to have some odd penalizing complication for the sake of "job identity". Individual flavour can be achieved without resorting to such.

[Otorinth]

That is an interesting idea, however I fear it could potentially leave you in a vulnerable spot.
Let's take the most common situation in which an invulnerable ability is used. A big buster is about to come which would normally kill you so you pop LD which reduces you to 0 hp and triggers Walking Dead. Then after that there tends to be a bit of a lull in incoming damage with mainly just fluff damage from a few autos, meaning that you regain little hp from the proposed Walking Dead effect. Then when the effect wears off a healer has to quickly react and heal you up or what little hp buffer you have could quickly get chewed through and you die.

I understand what you were going for but the part about not being able to be healed by others in Walking Dead, DRK's lack of proper burst healing and the likeliness of taking negligible damage leaves the proposed changes still problematic, far more complicated and at a discernible disadvantage compared to the other invulnerable abilities.

All in all, I really feel that we should shed this idea that DRK's invulnerability ability has to have some odd penalizing complication for the sake of "job identity". Individual flavour can be achieved without resorting to such.

Autos in Savage/Ultimate raids can hit between 9,000-17,000. A few of those over a 10 second period can equal out to a mighty amount of healing when the effect ends.This also extends to packs of mobs.

The greatest vulnerability would come from eating a buster that activates Walking Dead, and having the boss IMMEDIATELY going into un-targetable super attack that takes JUST LONG ENOUGH to charge and release,so that it causes your WD to fall off before the hit can actually take place.

[TouchandFeel]

Autos in Savage/Ultimate raids can hit between 9,000-17,000. A few of those over a 10 second period can equal out to a mighty amount of healing when the effect ends.This also extends to packs of mobs.

The greatest vulnerability would come from eating a buster that activates Walking Dead, and having the boss IMMEDIATELY going into un-targetable super attack that takes JUST LONG ENOUGH to charge and release,so that it causes your WD to fall off before the hit can actually take place.

I don't disagree that it could work in some situations but it's the "could" and "some" that I find problematic, especially when the things that could determine success or failure may be out of the players' control. Hallowed doesn't have mechanics that complicate things like that, neither does Holmgang, not even the widely panned Superbolide. So then why does Living Dead have to have some odd caveat tacked on? Why do we keep putting these limitations and/or punishments into it when proposing changes or redesigns? Because the flawed version that we currently have has one so we decided that such is necessary for the ability to have "job identity"?

There are so many ways that Living Dead could have it's design changed to make it more straight forward, more simple and still make it feel unique.

[Kaedan]

It doesn't need to be removed, just changed so that you only need to be healed 50% of your total HP rather than 100%.


EDIT: Also, if you don't go to 0 while under the effects of the initial 10s, you do not die. I don't know where people are getting the idea you die no matter what if you use the skill...