Xenosys Vex's tank analysis. (Video)

[Otorinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsQqpcrmNBI

As usual, good sh*t. Quite possibly the only analysis for tanks worth watching.

I don't frequent here, but I do recall seeing a lot of salty animosity towards this man awhile back. Leave it at the door, if you`re strong enough.

[Hierro]

I really like xeno, but I gotta disagree on that point about onslaught. He argues it needs to be costless or give rage, but that defeats the design of having a gap closer which offers damage as a bonus without having to be a mandatory ability to keep on cooldown in order to optimize.

[NyneSwordz]

I really like xeno, but I gotta disagree on that point about onslaught. He argues it needs to be costless or give rage, but that defeats the design of having a gap closer which offers damage as a bonus without having to be a mandatory ability to keep on cooldown in order to optimize.

This isnt a problem in Shadowbringers though because the gap closer is using the new charge mechanic. You can spend one charge and keep one pocket onslaught for inner release window or whenever u need it without losing dps.

I hope SE hears this and removes the rage cost from onslaught.

[Jollyy5]

This isnt a problem in Shadowbringers though because the gap closer is using the new charge mechanic. You can spend one charge and keep one pocket onslaught for inner release window or whenever u need it without losing dps.

I hope SE hears this and removes the rage cost from onslaught.

Would halving the cost be an acceptable compromise?

[NyneSwordz]

Huh? I want the rage cost removed. Increasing the cd to match other gap closers is fine with me.

I just want to use the gap closer for gap closing whenever I need to without thinking about whether its a dps loss to use it.

Having it at 30 sec cd with 2 charges seem perfect to me.

Seems to me that theres no point to ever use onslaught outside of IR as it is. So... low cd doesn't even matter. Make it free. 2 charges. Copy paste from the other 3 tanks.

[Hierro]

Huh? I want the rage cost removed. Increasing the cd to match other gap closers is fine with me.

I just want to use the gap closer for gap closing whenever I need to without thinking about whether its a dps loss to use it.

Having it at 30 sec cd with 2 charges seem perfect to me.

Seems to me that theres no point to ever use onslaught outside of IR as it is. So... low cd doesn't even matter. Make it free. 2 charges. Copy paste from the other 3 tanks.

If that's literally what you want, why change it? That's LITERALLY what we currently have onslaught for.

Right now, you're encouraged to use it only as a gap closer when needed outside of your IR window. When used as a gap closer, you don't have to think about it as a DPS gain or loss because of it's potency per rage cost. That said, you should always have the means to close gaps when necessary, and if there isn't, is there a reason you don't have the rage available when you need it? There's currently no reason for you to have 0 gauge as WAR when you're quite incentivized to have some gauge for crit's sake unless you're min-maxing by dumping all your gauge during raid buffs.... but I heavily doubt that's your reason.

[NyneSwordz]

If that's literally what you want, why change it? That's LITERALLY what we currently have onslaught for.

Right now, you're encouraged to use it only as a gap closer when needed outside of your IR window. When used as a gap closer, you don't have to think about it as a DPS gain or loss because of it's potency per rage cost. That said, you should always have the means to close gaps when necessary, and if there isn't, is there a reason you don't have the rage available when you need it? There's currently no reason for you to have 0 gauge as WAR when you're quite incentivized to have some gauge for crit's sake unless you're min-maxing by dumping all your gauge during raid buffs.... but I heavily doubt that's your reason.

Let me rephrase. I guess I wasn't doing a good job of really explaining myself. My bad. I think what really bothers me about onslaught costing rage is that it is a bit annoying that I can't just use it when I start a fight if I have no rage. As for the rage cost itself, I guess I have no issue with onslaught costing rage, especially in ShB since we can just save 1 charge of infuriate for emergencies when we need onslaught but haven't the rage for it.

And I read the balance guide on wars, and I get that onslaught needs a rage cost because it helps with gauge management and GCD manipulation.

Lastly, I don't think Defiance is going to grant crit with more beast guage in ShB. I could be wrong. So the reason to pool beast gauge is not really there. Especially since we can always save 1 stack of infuriate? Right?

So how about wars be given the following trait:

Staying out of combat for 30 seconds gives the warrior XXXX buff which removes the beast gauge cost from the next onslaught. XXXX persists after logging out and logging back in.

This way, Wars can use onslaught immediately when starting fights if they want to, but it doesn't screw with GCD manipulation and gauge management after the fight has begun. After they're in combat even once, Wars just need to remember to save some gauge or use infuriate to end with some gauge if they wanna onslaught in between pulling packs of monsters or whatever. It's just a QOL fix which makes onslaught easier and more fun to use. This doesn't mess with balance so none of the other tanks should be jelly since onslaught retains the cost once in combat.

What do you think?

[Shurrikhan]

tl;dr: Onslaught is fine. Just make Intervene defensively purposed and similarly as near-optional for mitigation/uptime as Onslaught is for net damage. Let Plunge be the only full obligatory free-potency charge skill because they need whatever APM they can hold onto at this point.

Would halving the cost be an acceptable compromise?

Not really. There are two issues at play here:

1. Relative potency per Beast Gauge.

If there's even a slight ppGCD advantage to Onslaught, it should be used very nearly on refresh. Doing so defeats the point of having it as a competitive-but-only-situationally-ideal option, rather than as a spam-component. (Note: by being oGCD while Fell Cleave is a GCD it's already always a net gain if the added potency means trimming even a single Butcher's Block via its 10x enmity.)

2. Quality of Life and "Feel", especially on pull.

If every other tank gets to ranged once and then dive in headlong but yours requires that hold back some gauge or Infuriate over the end of the previous pull and sacrifice optimal damage... well, you don't feel much like using your flashy, cool charge move. And when everyone else is doing their flashy, cool charge moves and you, for all intents and purposes, only kind of sort of even have one, it... feels bad, man.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Warrior needs to be able to keep up with the other tanks perfectly in this regard (e.g. as sizeable, rather than very subtle or situational, free potency), but it feels awkward to have the only, the new carbon copy, and then... the passed-over inferior mid-generation version, especially now that charges so greatly mitigate the advantage of Onslaught's lower cooldown.

I'd argue, though, that the solution doesn't lie with Onslaught changes. It's the power creep elsewhere (PLD, especially), that needs to be addressed.

Personally, I'd prefer that Intervene also come at cost to gauge and function more alike to Onslaught -- albeit with a wholly mitigation-oriented effect (absorbing 200 of your potency's worth of enemy damage from their next single-target attacks) to be weighed against Intervention -- while only DRK gets the true free extra oGCD damage in the form of its OG tank charge. Thus:

PLD - Mobility and minor flat damage reduction vs. potentially huge damage reduction.
DRK - Do I gets shield or does s/he gets shield? (Also, I like APM, so my charge is free.)
WAR - Do I do more damage if I walk back or charge back?

[Anienai]

I love his metal strums.

[Jojokomoko]

It's good that he seems to think the overall balance for tanks this time around is not as bad as SB. They do need to buff GNB potency a little bit tho if those beta tooltips were true.