Thread: Healers in 5.0

It's not just about the dps potency. It's about fun and game feeling.

Having a dps rotation within SCH, along with both fairies micro-management added much flavour to the job, just like having healing and raise does to RDM.
Having different cards with completely different buffs to play with also added flavour to AST, just like it does to BRD and will too to DNC.
My view is that dps are very different with their dps kit but also with their utility, and i hoped they would have treated healers the same way.

Including dps rotation along with fairy management and healing made SCH being a very fun job to play with always something to do, decisions to take, lots of micro-management aside from healing. AST had the cards to redraw, choose, burn, a lot of decision making too which makes it fun.
Taking these away for the sake of pure healing only is sad, and yes, pure healing in terms of more shield/regen. According to me these two are of the core toolkit of healers, but they need something more, just like dps got a core toolkit and something more.

Originally Posted by Melichoir

For everyone who still wants to have a go at this, consider the changes to healers:

WHM - Getting some better DPS skills, some regens and insta-cast stuff. Its becoming more dynamic, thus rounding it out. Youll still be probably best healer, but you now have a bit more in the DPS compartment.
SCH - Youre getting greater potency healing and more job specific abilities at the cost of some of your DPS abilities. Theyre reducing SCH damage out put in favor of giving it more Healing output and being more healing directed. It still is the DPS healer, just not as DPSy as it was, but its granting you better healing capacity in return. Again, they are Rounding out the healer class to be more dynamic.
AST - Changes mainly to the card System allowing for less RNG overall, some 'lesser' changes in damage skills and healing.

These are just quick breakdowns, and can be found on reddit. Yes, there was a little bit of trimming from DPS on AST and SCH, but that was balanced against more healing and other changes in playstyle and management. If youre whole focus on SCH was to essentially just let Eos or Selene heal while you dps, that sucks. Go learn summoner. If you wanted more dps as a WHM, congrats, youre getting that. If you wanted less RNG in cards, GJ, thats coming your way. This isnt some attempt by the devs to say "Screw healers, we hate them! Lets make them ultra boring."

Lastly, It's worth noting that (if Im understanding things correctly) not all the reworks and skills have been released. Most of it has, but not all of it. Things are still subject to change when the xpac drops, such as potencies and CDs and the like. So as I said, gettign your knickers in a twist at this point is stupid. Just wait for the xpac. Be upset if you want, but this nonsense about "Woe is Healer, all is terrible, Screw you SE!" is a bit much. Calm down. Play the game when it drops. It still sucks, then find a new class or quit.



Pure healer, fromt what I understand, in Japanese context does not mean only healing - it means healers with more Shield/Regen abilities. If it was just about only healing, WHM would not have been given a DPS increase.

I'm sorry Melichoir but I have to disagree with some things.
The whole complaint regarding WHM throughout HW and SB was exactly that. It only healed. You see, when you need to make content work for every healer you end up catering to the weakest healer. WHM was all about the big number heals which was basically wasted because nothing in the game required such a massive healing output and if it did then it would be unbalanced and would made WHM mandatory because the other healers wouldn't be able to keep up (and even then... SCH is OP. A single Indom can top up a party and guess what? it's oGCD so you can keep DPSing to your hearts content, but i'm not going down that rabbit hole)
So considering most of the healing potency on WHM was wasted, what else did they have to show for it? Almost endless MP that would only be needed if people mess up or... you guessed it. DPS.
Unfortunatly healer is that role that has its difficulty based solely on how well or poorly others perform.

I mean when doing 24 man raids I would play AST and I could solo heal most of the nukes on my own. There is this massive build-up to the epic boss special attack, everyone shields and heals.... and i can top up the entire party with Collective Unconscious and Earthly Star more often than not. The other healer might as well sit there twiddling his/her thumbs (or /dance).

Because of the way fights were scripted and the fact that normally things hit like wet noodles healers ended up having a lot of downtime so what some people decided to do? DPS because you might as well make things go faster. Gamers in general are all about efficient use of their time (not everyone can sit in front of their computer for 12+ hours)

Saying people getting "their knickers in a twist is stupid" is a bit rude. I don't agree with the people who are saying that their class is utterly destroyed because of the changes because I sit on the "let's wait and see" camp, but I perfectly understand why people are concerned about their favorite role. I don't main healer and even I'm worried for the healers.

Lastly, regarding that final sentence or yours, would you care to elaborate why you're fine with healers having shield and healing and less DPS capabilities yet every other job now gets to dip their toes in healing?
DPSers can heal and support, Tank can heal and DPS but god forbid if Healers dip their toes into DPSing. They should just stick to just healing! It feels like a slap on their face. Why was support moved from healing and shoved even more into DPS? Why?

edit: also if they don't change the WHM potency the "extra dps" i actually a dps loss. You're better off spamming the new equivalent of stone if you want damage

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Welcome to SMN when SB dropped, along with other classes. I admit this is a problem, but this isnt a new problem and its not one that is unique to sch.

Yep i was there >_> its been a problem but i am finding it hard to encourage new healers with these changes because these changes very much seem like they are aimed at ShB content rather than general content which because the way the game is designed new players will either have to go through the 1-70 msq(which i usually recommend) or pay for skip and their experience from a gameplay level will have barely changed because everything in this game atm is designed around less healing needed than what these changes are going to do which means they are button bloat, no matter how you look at things pre ShB content is going to be worse off than it is currently for healers and i dread saying this but i may actually want very undergeared tanks in leveling roulette just so i don't get bored >_>

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Rounding out and giving two rotations is two different htings. Giving a DPS a utility where they can pop a heal or res isnt the same thing as giving SCH the ability to be a full healer and a full DPS. Itd be like saying that while you play NIN, you also get to cast Regens, shields, heavy heals, and Damage buffs as oGCD that are just as or nearly as powerful as healers. This is the problem with the SCH point: Some are mad theyre losing some of their DPS kit in return for getting improvements to be better healers - you know, the roll that they are. Of the healers, SCH gets hit the hardest in trimming hte DPS kit compared to the other two. But thats because its kit was pretty dps heavy comparatively. Meanwhile, WHM is getting buffs to its nearly non-existent DPS kit to have some DPS. And based on what Im reading, it still feels like SCH will be the highest damage dealing Healer in a fight, with WHM being the lowest but best healer and AST being in the middle.

They should've reduce the potencies instead of removing it all, then it wouldn't have been full healer and dps as you say. Even though i'm sure it's not actually doing as much damage as an actual dps, so we can't talk about it being both a full healer and dps.

But again, it's all about having something to do aside from healing because healing is an adjusting job, not one with a rotation to be kept busy all the time.
I believe it's not much of a dps loss that's the issue but an entertainment loss, for getting less things to do.

Originally Posted by Melichoir

snip

I'm disagreeing in the basis of: content didn't need your big heals and they're now giving everyone more heals. What for? And you're happy they get more powerful heals? Again, what for?

I'm basically now stuck to hoping that content design heads a different direction while dreading the fact they won't even touch old content to reflect this possible need for more healing while leaving me spamming one button if i want to do anything other than healing. (i am looking forward to see how mp management is going to work though, but only because it's new. Let's hope i won't hate it once i get my hands on it.)

regarding SCH complaining I dunno. I don't feel it's just the dps loss. SCH as AST to me... they seem like the're complaining about the loss of decision making which is part of what makes healers fun. SCH had options to pick between damage or more heals. Now it stricly heals. AST had the different card effects and you had to decide on the fly especially if you got a bad hand. Now every card does the same thing and you fish for different seals for an aoe damage buff so basically it feels like it's balance aoe fishing again with a new fresh coat of paint.

Don't get me wrong. there are things I have liked. I like how they've picked up on the fact that WHM was frustrating to play if you had to actually use your gcds to heal and you had to sit there to cast while every other healer has aoes heals that are instant. WHM basically had a skill to speed up casting (which considering how fast some fights where it wasn't enough) or blow swiftcast which then you had to pray no one died (or use your smn/rdm as rez bots instead)
Also you keep bringing WHM up. You do realize WHM is arguably the one who is better off right? And neither of us can't really comment on WHM being buffed because combat changes will affect potencies so 500 potency right now might be different from 500 potency in Shadowbringers. Did it get some QOL changes? Definitely but I wouldn't call them "buffs". Not yet at least.