Shadowbringer: Summoner Changes Discussion

[Jandor]

Sigh.
Because. The. Focus. Of. The. Job. From. Heavensward. Onwards. Has. Been. On. Bahamut.

Most of the abilities you gain from 50 to 70 have nothing to do with Bahamut.

[Len]

The real level 80 ability is Demi-phoenix and Scarlet Flame / Revelation. Everlasting Flight is just "added flavour"

We shouldn't have useless fluff abilities simply for "added flavour." Either buff the potency or change the effect.

And again, I'd like to point out for anyone that's forgotten: Summoners aren't healers. We're not going to be timing our Firebird Trances around party-wide damage.

[Razard]

Most of the abilities you gain from 50 to 70 have nothing to do with Bahamut.

Lol

Are you serious? That’s like saying that most of Black Mages 50 to 70 abilities have nothing to do with Enochian.

[Haxaan]

We shouldn't have useless fluff abilities simply for "added flavour." Either buff the potency or change the effect.

And again, I'd like to point out for anyone that's forgotten: Summoners aren't healers. We're not going to be timing our Firebird Trances around party-wide damage.

Summoners aren't healers but they have usually always had some form of heal, plus Phoenix has ALWAYS had a healing effect (though usually tied to their resurrection ability), so flavour or not it would be stupid to make that disconnect. Since healers have been changed so drastically to be "more pure heal" I highly doubt Summoners will ever be asked to time their Firebird Trance around heal checks. All numbers are mostly placeholders right now and could be drastically changed before launch. Let's wait and see how it actually plays, I'm pretty excited for Phoenix and am 100% ok with the heal effect. Let's face it, we still have Physick, so for Phoenix to have a heal isn't really that far of a stretch.

[Jandor]

That’s like saying that most of Black Mages 50 to 70 abilities have nothing to do with Enochian.

How exactly is it like saying that? The two jobs have entirely different sets of abilities.

[Len]

Let's face it, we still have Physick, so for Phoenix to have a heal isn't really that far of a stretch.

So because we have one useless heal in Physick, that some how paves the way for another useless one down the line?

And as for lore/flavour making a heal on Phoenix necessary: FFXIV Summoner has never stayed true to the conventions of past iterations. Why start now, especially if this is the form it's going to take?

[Razard]

How exactly is it like saying that? The two jobs have entirely different sets of abilities.

Because, like Black Mages Enochian, the Bahamut skills are massively important to the overall play style of the job. Even though they have a majority of skills that "have nothing to do with Bahamut/Enochian". Double that for Summoner because getting Dreadwyrm Trance is a big part of the Job quest.

[Haxaan]

So because we have one useless heal in Physick, that some how paves the way for another useless one down the line?

And as for lore/flavour making a heal on Phoenix necessary: FFXIV Summoner has never stayed true to the conventions of past iterations. Why start now, especially if this is the form it's going to take?

Oh Believe me, I'm right there with you on Physick being useless, and am definitely of the mind that it should either be made useful or changed into something else. As far as Phoenix having a heal, I don't see the big deal. It's just a little extra support, it isn't potent and it's an auto ability so it's not causing ability bloat. Dancer also has a heal and so does Red Mage, I don't know why it seems like something we shouldn't have to you.

Summoner has always had some form of heal, whether it be a direct cast heal or from a summon that has a healing ability, so this really doesn't seem like something outside of their wheel house. I understand that XIV Summoner is not like other FF Summoners, but there should be some connection to it's history and DNA.

[Mansion]

And again, I'd like to point out for anyone that's forgotten: Summoners aren't healers. We're not going to be timing our Firebird Trances around party-wide damage.

Did anyone even suggest that? Given the potency, no healer is going to give Everlasting Flight any form of credit in their healing rotation.
Especially now that our Trances are the new aetherflow : we must use them every minute. We're not going to delay it for the healing effect.

I agree that it's pointless as it is presented for now, but I'd rather see more fuss here about how unforgiving Trances timing is rather than complaining on Everlasting Flight

[Shurrikhan]

Lol

Are you serious? That’s like saying that most of Black Mages 50 to 70 abilities have nothing to do with Enochian.

To be strictly, technical, only one skill in 10 Actions/Traits actually produces Bahamut.
The rest had to do with a Trance-state. If you call Dreadwyrm Trance Bahamut, then most skills have to do with Bahamut.
If you instead call the borrowed Aether a basis in caster spells and phases that only tangentially have anything to do with Bahamut himself (i.e. unless you consider Deathflare as Ahk Morn despite not being spammable and the fishhead animation of DWT as the body of Bahamut), then most skills do not have to do with Bahamut.

That point of potential distinction does not exist with Enochian, which does not borrow its mechanic's name from some other creature or mechanic. It simply is.