Shadowbringer: Summoner Changes Discussion

[Taranok]

It's definitely a very busy job now. Summon II still needs some crowd control and still would like to see Flaming Crush changed.

As far as I can tell, the class is actually the busiest or near-busiest job in the game. I haven't done enough of the new Machinist to know for sure, and obviously Dancer is right out, but I'm tunnel visoning hard just trying to keep on top of the 50 billion cooldowns this class has to constantly fire off.

And I've come to find that the queue limit appears to just be a hard 2, because even if I just start with EAs, I've seen EAs frequently get dropped when I back to back cast them. Having Enkindle and Devotion under the same system exacerbates the issue, the pet is just flat out not fast enough for how quickly SMN needs to be able to pump out these oGCDs.

I actually am struggling to figure out how the devs didn't notice these issues. Every individual change is great, but the class as a whole basically is trying to play like a Bard on steroids but it's a caster and it's breaking at the seams.

[Rauderi]

Summon II still needs some crowd control and still would like to see Flaming Crush changed.

I find myself a little baffled by Ifrit being so AoE focused. We already have Garuda for that.
And I have a major gripe with Titan's Assault I not activating Ruin IV. Seems like it activates on Assault only if it damages an enemy, not when the summon's cast is finished.
As it is, if I'm going to lose pet sustain *and* have no way to heal, I may as well roll RDM and free myself from the complications of pet positioning. And yeah, not letting that Physick thing go until SMN gets *some* Mind to cast it with. Literally easiest solution. Half Int or even a third would be a huge boost over what we have now.

[kyuxel]

Honestly I wish I can toggle which EA can be auto cast by pet. All EA, except maybe garuda slipstream and titan earthen armor, can just be auto used by pet like before.

[Gallus]

Honestly I wish I can toggle which EA can be auto cast by pet. All EA, except maybe garuda slipstream and titan earthen armor, can just be auto used by pet like before.

I feel like a scrub for agreeing with this but you know what...I'd actually welcome it, the OGCD bloat and things to keep track of is so overwhelming it's hard to pay attention to boss mechanics.

[SchrodingersWaffle]

Another solution would just be to straight up make Ruin III instant cast, or increase the potency on Ruin II again so it's not a DPS loss to use Ruin III as filler and Ruin II when you need to weave.

[Len]

I'm finding Summoner to be a little overwhelming to keep up with currently.

That being said, I'm glad that you largely know what to expect from the job early on since there's a huge gap before you gain your final ability at Lv.80.

[Rauderi]

Overall, I'm glad SMN feels busier than just Ruin III x 5. And I feel burstier, at least a little.

Major problems so far:
Physick. It's still Mind-based, the job isn't given the Mind to support it. If Firebird's heal is Int-based, it's about time for Physick to get an Int-trait as well, at level 30. I'm not looking for RDM numbers here, but 700 at level 70 is asinine.
Tied to lack of HP restoration, SMN is far squishier than it used to be. It wouldn't be so much a problem if Titan's Egi I activated Ruin IV, but it does not, while the other attack-spells do. Which tells me it's probably coded as "resolve after attack" instead of "resolve after activation". That also needs to change.
If we're *not* going to get a decent Physick, can we at least get Energy Drain/Siphon to restore a percentage of HP? Even 5% might do wonders, since the skill is every 30 seconds.

[xXAzurePrimeXx]

Overall, I'm glad SMN feels busier than just Ruin III x 5. And I feel burstier, at least a little.

Major problems so far:
Physick. It's still Mind-based, the job isn't given the Mind to support it. If Firebird's heal is Int-based, it's about time for Physick to get an Int-trait as well, at level 30. I'm not looking for RDM numbers here, but 700 at level 70 is asinine.
Tied to lack of HP restoration, SMN is far squishier than it used to be. It wouldn't be so much a problem if Titan's Egi I activated Ruin IV, but it does not, while the other attack-spells do. Which tells me it's probably coded as "resolve after attack" instead of "resolve after activation". That also needs to change.
If we're *not* going to get a decent Physick, can we at least get Energy Drain/Siphon to restore a percentage of HP? Even 5% might do wonders, since the skill is every 30 seconds.

I agree with the Energy Drain part. They can leave Physick alone if they want but having ED heal us a bit would be amazing. Otherwise I like the changes. Of feels like we have a lot more choice where as before there was just one set rotation you repeated over and over again. This time I feel like I have options and damage seems to be more sustained. All around Summoner feels so much more satisfying especially summoning Phoenix. It could definitely use a few touch ups along the way but I'm happy that we got a decent rework. Also, a bit unrelated, but a lot of people are upset with Sch changes whereas I actually quite like them. If they gave us Enegry Drain back, it would be perfect.

[SchrodingersWaffle]

I agree with the Energy Drain part. They can leave Physick alone if they want but having ED heal us a bit would be amazing. Otherwise I like the changes. Of feels like we have a lot more choice where as before there was just one set rotation you repeated over and over again. This time I feel like I have options and damage seems to be more sustained. All around Summoner feels so much more satisfying especially summoning Phoenix. It could definitely use a few touch ups along the way but I'm happy that we got a decent rework. Also, a bit unrelated, but a lot of people are upset with Sch changes whereas I actually quite like them. If they gave us Enegry Drain back, it would be perfect.

Things I would like for SMN:

• Change to FBT/DWT that gives us more flexibility on when we use them. (Either Nemekh's theorized ability from the thread he did on SMN changes or by putting 2 charges on Trance. I'm not picky)
• Egi Assault I+II triggering Further Ruin off of the SMN activating the ability, not the Pet using the ability
• Either let Physick scale off Int or give us SOMETHING to offset losing Titan tanking. His Egi Assault I is a good starting place. Energy Drain/Siphon giving back Health percentage would be a good place to continue but we're gonna need more than that.

Over all I'm liking the changes.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

I'm all for cutting back on oGCDs a little, but I'd prefer they do so without just turning our pets into random glowy blobs again.
I'd find the design of rewarding player to not actively use their abilities (by making them automatic) pretty questionable, especially since Further Ruin is tied to it. Let's face it, Summoner is a Pet Job (or at least the closest equivalent, depending on if your definition of Pet requires HP Bars), you should have to command your Egi for full effectiveness, at least in my opinion. Being able to automate your Pet is fine in and of itself, but there should be a drawback.
Also, we've finally just moved on from being a Ruin Mage with auto attacking Blobs, I'd prefer not to go back to that.

If the Devs make cuts to our oGCDs, I'd rather they take a look at whats left of the Aetherflow Mechanic and ask themselves which parts are really worth keeping around now that its divorced from our major Job Mechanic. Personally I'd get rid of Energy Drain/Siphon (give it to back to SCH, they'll love it), combine Bane and Painflare into one skill (since both are only used during AoE anyway), and throw Fester and Baneflare onto a shared Chargetimer. If that happens to be impossible due to technical challenges, maybe turn Aetherflow into a passive that works similar to how WHMs Lilies work now; gaining SMN a stack of Aetherflow every 20 seconds or so.
(Or, for a more drastic Pipedream; turn Fester and "Baneflare" into Pet Abilities, mock up an Egi Assault 3 and redistribute any lost potency towards other Pet Abilites and additional Ruin IVs procced by using EA3. Also, lower Enkindle Cooldown ever further, let the Egis get some burst action too. Bonus Points if Titans EA3 was some sort of Reverse Sustain, putting a Regen on the Summoner to augment Earther Armor. Unlikely, I know, but an Elf can dream right?)

Speaking of Titan: They really shoud take another look, because currently Earthern Armor is very clunky to use in most Content but also too weak to really help in solo situations (PotD/HoH/soloing Wonderous Tails stuff etc). I really wish the devs would just embrace the whole Solo/Support Pet possibility as I see no reason to be worried about it encroaching on regular Contest so long as Titan trades enough damage for it.
Also, make EAs ranged so the Pets don't eat it, lol.

Sorry if this is a bit disorderly and incoherent, just following my train of thought here. I honestly have more thoughts and Ideas, but I don't want to overdo it before I've seen the full picture at level 80.