Kneejerk reaction to PLD changes.

[Bright-Flower]

Just in case people didn't know:

The buff from Passage of Arms is applied to your entire party instantly and lasts for 5-6 seconds.
Therefore you can pop passage and immediately start attacking the boss, and the buff will still remain on your party as the raid-wide damage goes out.

You don't have to stand still with passage up and wait for the raid-wide buster to hit you.

:O

All this time, I thought the effect ended as soon as I moved.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I mean you keep saying cover is only useful now in niche situations, but the thing is cover is a niche skill to begin with. You're gonna use cover in a niche way anyways because it's not the conventional method to how the mechanic was designed in the first place. Take o12s and the tank share mechanic, you cover the MT after he receives the magic vuln and cover them and take the buster. you cover the BRD/MCH in o11s for the hp tether so you can keep uptime, you used to use cover to prevent / avoid a tank swap, these are all niche things in the first place. So it got nerfed so what, considering there is still so much strong mitigation in PLDs toolkit, seriously, the nerfs PLD got are so minor compared to what we gain. Some of the future strat will still use cover as a planned CD, especially when cheesing stuff using a ranged dps to maximise uptime, 50 gauge to gain more dps sounds like a win to me, niche or not but it is a niche skill to use in the first place.

[ValentineSnow]

I mean you keep saying cover is only useful now in niche situations, but the thing is cover is a niche skill to begin with. You're gonna use cover in a niche way anyways because it's not the conventional method to how the mechanic was designed in the first place. Take o12s and the tank share mechanic, you cover the MT after he receives the magic vuln and cover them and take the buster. you cover the BRD/MCH in o11s for the hp tether so you can keep uptime, you used to use cover to prevent / avoid a tank swap, these are all niche things in the first place. So it got nerfed so what, considering there is still so much strong mitigation in PLDs toolkit, seriously, the nerfs PLD got are so minor compared to what we gain. Some of the future strat will still use cover as a planned CD, especially when cheesing stuff using a ranged dps to maximise uptime, 50 gauge to gain more dps sounds like a win to me, niche or not but it is a niche skill to use in the first place.

I'm sorry, let me see if I understand you right. Are you trying to say cover will be just as useful as it is now when it's had 20% mitigation taken off and a gauge cost added on? Cause I don't see the math following that one.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Okay so if you look at it from one aspect if you cover a tank sure it's ARR/ HW cover, but if you cover a DPS or healer it has 20% DR, because that's 20% DPS and healers don't have.

[Jeeqbit]

What you quoted literally says in Stormblood PLD uses cover all the time.... NOW, in shadowbringers, it won’t be used anymore because it has been nerfed.

Perhaps it'll be used less, but saying it won't be used at all is a stretch.

I see Paladins use it really effectively right down to the lowest dungeons and trials.

It's superb for preventing someone from dying for an extended period while a healer resolves the situation. Perhaps a healer is casting a 7 second raise and can't heal the rest of the party. They won't have to stop their important cast if a Paladin throws their utility at the situation by covering someone and healing another with Divine Veil up. I have plenty such experiences because roulettes have first timers in by design.

It's a tricky situation because Cover is in the spirit of your oath to protect others, yet is not apart of the Oath Gauge. It makes logical sense for it to be apart of the Oath Gauge from a lore perspective, but might be annoying if you can't fully rely on it being available and for the other reasons you've mentioned.

I'm sorry, let me see if I understand you right. Are you trying to say cover will be just as useful as it is now when it's had 20% mitigation taken off and a gauge cost added on? Cause I don't see the math following that one.

It's not had the 20% mitigation taken off. The 20% damage reduction has just been moved to a trait.

[Launched]

I'm sorry, let me see if I understand you right. Are you trying to say cover will be just as useful as it is now when it's had 20% mitigation taken off and a gauge cost added on? Cause I don't see the math following that one.

As useful? No, and that's a good thing, because it was so strong. It will still be very useful though, there will still be plenty of times when you want to Cover a healer/dps targeted by mechanics, take a debuff meant for the other tank, or just normally mitigate a tankbuster without swapping.

[mrt617]

As useful? No, and that's a good thing, because it was so strong. It will still be very useful though, there will still be plenty of times when you want to Cover a healer/dps targeted by mechanics, take a debuff meant for the other tank, or just normally mitigate a tankbuster without swapping.

With the 50 gauge cost it's not going to be used on the MT anymore. It will be much better to just tank swap and save the gauge for Sheltron. Only time cover will be used in the future will be on prey type mechanics targeting dps (like in o7s) or in emergencies like you need to keep a recently raised person alive through a mechanic (at the same time it might be better to just use clemency). The more I think about it I don't see what the big issue with it being so strong. War's get an invuln every 3 minutes. That seems way better than Stormblood Cover.

[ValentineSnow]

It's not had the 20% mitigation taken off. The 20% damage reduction has just been moved to a trait.

erm, no? If a PLD covers a WAR in a fight right now they're adding 20% mitigation from cover. Both of them being in sword oath and deliverance. After the expansion they both have 20% mitigation tacked on, cause they're both basically in shield oath and defiance as standard (that is what the trait is). So if the PLD covers the WAR in that same fight, he's no longer adding any mitigation that isn't already there, might as well have just tank swapped right? Saved 50 gauge to use on sheltron instead? Provoke doesn't cost anything and sheltron does add mitigation where cover now doesn't for the same price.

A majority of the times PLDs used cover since stormblood has been to cover the MT instead of a swap. There have been other situations where it's been useful too, even before stormblood, but they were much fewer and far between, more in line with using tempered will to cheese mechanics. The mitigation on cover is what made it so mainstream, if you remove that then that primary use of cover goes with it and you're left with just cheese mechanics.

I dunno, it baffles me that people are defending this position, it's starting to remind me of people claiming it's fine that SMN still has a physick that heals 200hp.

It's not like anyone here is claiming that PLD is broken because of the cover nerf, just that cover isn't going to be worth using much anymore, which it isn't.

[Katie_Kitty]

Not a fan of the changes to cover but everything else looks great. No idea why anyone would complain about these changes. All in all, PLD has become much stronger.

[Bhearil]

Dont forget that either nerfs to PLD/DRK or buffs to WAR are coming 100%. Right now PLD is first at dps while WAR is third (DRK deals a bit more than WAR but barely) when it was estated by Yoshi that WAR will be the highest dps tank. So probably expect PLD 4.0 all over again where it was overtuned then promptly nerfed