Thread: Scholar 5.0 Discussion

In the aftermath of 5.0 I've read several forum posts that the ACN/SCH split was necessary for problems the developers had with classes and especially SMN/SCH sharing a class. With them being a relic from 1.0 and balance issues. Does anyone know what kind of problems they have been facing?

Longing to understand the cuts and I'm curious to know as ever since 3.0 SMN and SCH have gotten different skills, traits and damage scaled of different stats. That they could re-add Miasma 2 in SB and ED now only eligble for "SCH" without a word further makes me ponder what issues they could have been facing. Think it necessary to know to further mull over how to make Scholar fun again in all walks of the game. Wondered if it could be legacy code pertaining to the pre-30 skills and both SMN and SCH have old ties there. Seeing as all new jobs since HW have started with pre-30 skills I would think they could just make a new SCH in the same template as the new jobs and re-add skills at the same levels ACN did.

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

The only issues I've heard of is the devs believed SCHs were too focused on dps and forcing their healing partners to pick up their slack in healing. Which A: is bull, in my experience, and on fflogs, SCHs were healing just as much, if not more, than their co-healer. B: even if that were a problem, this doesnt fix it, just because SCH has less dps abilities isnt going to stop SCH from using the few it has.

I don’t know why they have such a hard time seeing Scholar as the support healer. Throw shields to help mitigate damage for the main healer, use ogcd’s to assist in healing when needed, have gcd heals for when things go bad, and give them their damage kit back to help assist with dps when not healing. They are clearly ok with Whm being able to throw out a lot of dps and big heals so it just doesn’t make sense. If their excuse is we don’t want to make scholar mandatory then they failed because now they have just made it Whm meta. Give Scholar their niche back and let the players decide what is important to them and their group. In my opinion it was never mandatory to play a scholar to beat content. It was a choice in case the dps elsewhere was lacking

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

The only issues I've heard of is the devs believed SCHs were too focused on dps and forcing their healing partners to pick up their slack in healing. Which A: is bull, in my experience, and on fflogs, SCHs were healing just as much, if not more, than their co-healer. B: even if that were a problem, this doesnt fix it, just because SCH has less dps abilities isnt going to stop SCH from using the few it has.

if anything they made that situation more true with shb im consistantly healing less than my co healer now while still close im now lower instead of above

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

The only issues I've heard of is the devs believed SCHs were too focused on dps and forcing their healing partners to pick up their slack in healing. Which A: is bull, in my experience, and on fflogs, SCHs were healing just as much, if not more, than their co-healer. B: even if that were a problem, this doesnt fix it, just because SCH has less dps abilities isnt going to stop SCH from using the few it has.

Yeah, the whole thing irks me. Like with pets aswell. Was it because of arcanist roots they had to strip the pet hotbar because it fit SMN.

What little I healed in Extremes and Savage before I never thought about leaving a raid-wide or patching up an unfortunate DPS to my co-healer. I would communicate so we could rotate our skills and decide what Eos could handle. I still wonder where they go to to get these impressions of the jobs on a whole.

Originally Posted by Gaethan_Tessula

Know-nothing non-healers who had a balance experience with a tunneled or careless healer once, will never EVER forget it, and project that behavior onto all healers.

Just look at the live letter feedback to see who they care about. DPS players.

Then to gain the favor of the developers Healers must become what we must: DPS players.

There was already a mentioned that the developers might feel they must adhere to the "Healer" archtype because the role is called Healer. Changing the name might let them ease on the definition and make scholar half healer and half arcanist/green mage.

Originally Posted by Sloprano

In the aftermath of 5.0 I've read several forum posts that the ACN/SCH split was necessary for problems the developers had with classes and especially SMN/SCH sharing a class. With them being a relic from 1.0 and balance issues. Does anyone know what kind of problems they have been facing?

It's an issue because Yoshi-P said that it didn't pan out as well as they hoped it would, and as such they won't be doing it again.

That's it basically, when it comes to actually playing the game neither Scholar nor Summoner gameplay is negatively effected by the link.

Also, hey Quil o/

Im 50 50. on getting energy drain back. like okay great i have some thing to use in older content and maybe 70-80 if the tank allows me to dps maybe on boss fights to get a bit more dps out. i'd be more accepting of it if we actually got a trait to upgrade it further

Art of war dosent feel right. we'd be better off getting our AOE Miasma back.. and call that our second dot and spammable all in one.

i know Ruin 2 helps keep up dps while we move.. but it would've been nice to see an upgrade to that or a change to a dot.

I dont think we need all of our Damage dealing skills back.. but skills that compliment it more when we have to heal more. Having dots was kinda essential while i tried to rotate adlo and Physic cause while thats going at least some thing for damage was going out to help kill things faster. like yeah okay i know its the goal to heal more through dungeons.. but Astro and Whm both can comfortably Heal and Damage at the same time. Scholar Dosent maybe thats just me but if i have to burn 3 stacks and double down on shields Dissipate burn 2-3 more and keep spamming i'm having a tank problem or DD problem.. but unlike WHM and AST, SCH cant do anything about it. they can both sit there a solid Heal with Benefic 2 or cure 2 and still try to push out damage time to time.

its just punishing to play it feels like. and now the fairies are no different from one another wtf. Honestly. i wish the AOE Esuna and quicken back but just have it cost fairy gauge so i actually have some thing to use it on other than Dungeon pulls... Turn Selene into a DD fairy with single target Attacks and call it a day.

less ranting i guess but..

Energy Drain needs a trait to make it better higher level wise to make it worth using a bit more. thats however my opinion. a potency increase or an increase to MP regen would be nice to see.

Ruin 2 Could use a Trait to upgrade it to another Dot or just flat out potency increase just a tad

Art of War i guess if i think about it. its Fine. but id much rather see the Miasma AOE back and maybe get a dot back with Bane. but again probably just my opinion.

2 extra fairy skills for spend fairy gauge on the old AOE esuna and Quicken would be nice.

Selene getting a use again would be awesome. instead of embrace just give it a single target damage attack to attack with you like the Trance summons work..

Physic needs a 50 potency increase. that's all i think of really to improve sch just a slightest. it dosent have to be OP it dosent need to be full on dps. just a couple skill changes would make a difference and we'd still be able to heal as much as we have to now.

Originally Posted by Jandor

It's an issue because Yoshi-P said that it didn't pan out as well as they hoped it would, and as such they won't be doing it again.

That's it basically, when it comes to actually playing the game neither Scholar nor Summoner gameplay is negatively effected by the link.

Also, hey Quil o/

Cheers, that makes sense. The incessant removal of arcanist skills seem more now more their job design than something that prevented them from taking the jobs in the directions they wanted. Not for any technical or legacy code issue, then the issue if it was tested in solo and 4-man content comes up again.

And hey Tali \o.

Originally Posted by FIDOISHERE

I dont think we need all of our Damage dealing skills back.. but skills that compliment it more when we have to heal more. Having dots was kinda essential while i tried to rotate adlo and Physic cause while thats going at least some thing for damage was going out to help kill things faster. like yeah okay i know its the goal to heal more through dungeons.. but Astro and Whm both can comfortably Heal and Damage at the same time. Scholar Dosent maybe thats just me but if i have to burn 3 stacks and double down on shields Dissipate burn 2-3 more and keep spamming i'm having a tank problem or DD problem.. but unlike WHM and AST, SCH cant do anything about it. they can both sit there a solid Heal with Benefic 2 or cure 2 and still try to push out damage time to time.

its just punishing to play it feels like. and now the fairies are no different from one another wtf. Honestly. i wish the AOE Esuna and quicken back but just have it cost fairy gauge so i actually have some thing to use it on other than Dungeon pulls... Turn

Indeed, if feels like they could've done so much more. The gauge, the fairies. I'd love to see something new that makes the old version pale in comparison. So reason why I'm asking for return of the 3.0 Scholar is that it worked and flowed well. I was hoping that was the standard and they wanted to achieve at least that measure of engagement and fun: Strong AF skills that are limited, costly shields and weak heals, a strong healing fairy, a fairy full of tools, Cleric stance, five dots, shadowflare.

The whole skillset seemes to be skewed in balance. Reason I bring up 3.0 is that scholar's healing/mitigation skills made up roughly half of your buttons and the tools that did or helped do damage was the other half. Slowly ever since we've lost more damage options for more healing options, but more healing haven't been needed. So we heal as we always have, but when the time comes you want to do something different there is only Broil III.