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  1. #1
    Player
    Leonus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    677
    Character
    Kenrir Amnis
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkenne View Post
    Speaking of bad feelings, it was mentioned in a post before, but starting a dungeon boss fight with 2 Sen and no buff will be awkward too :/
    Just the idea of having both Kasha and Gekko but not Shifu or Jinpu and have to go through Yukikaze on the boss first...
    Then off we go to decide: Do I Jinpu, or do I Shifu? (Obviously I would go Shifu, because come on, its Shifu)

    Point is that the result is a non-fully buffed Midare, and I may not like to do a bunch of the same, but I really dislike not doing a full buff of the one and only...
    I don't know, the ramp up with Sam will be different for sure, but I have to think... Getting that last sen on the start of the boss, to Midare > iajutsu move > Midare > kasha, gekko, Yuki combos > Midare > Meikyo > Midare... Makes me happy. All in what... 40 seconds? Followed by 2 more Midare at the 60 second mark... I'm excited.

    Edit: I forgot a Higanbana after initial midares.
    (0)
    Last edited by Leonus; 06-07-2019 at 02:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Arkenne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,350
    Character
    Aiot O'lein
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonus View Post
    I don't know, Midare all day, I'm excited.
    Im glad you like it.
    Meh, I'll get used to it I suppose? At least it will be my "goto" DPS option for under lvl 80 stuff once Im done lvling all the others.

    Btw, the gritting part of that situation is being forced to go through 4 GCDs at the get-go with no Shifu speed, only to get on Shifu speed and still being forced to cast a gimped Midare...
    Minor stuff for the end result, I know, its just kind of like a splinter stuck on the foot.
    (0)
    Last edited by Arkenne; 06-07-2019 at 02:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Player

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    251
    seems like sam is now a dumbed down midare bot
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Leonus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    677
    Character
    Kenrir Amnis
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitoo View Post
    seems like sam is now a dumbed down midare bot

    What is wrong with that? It's not like any of the classes are really all that difficult to play.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Gruntler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    317
    Character
    Kawaiian Punch
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    If you're not a wood-tier Samurai, you're meditating in downtime situations.

    Shoha is free damage to reward you for meditating, which already was free damage you were getting.

    If you're complaining it's 'boring for a level 80' just pretend the double iaijutsu is your level 80 and call it a day. Except Shoha is actually not going to be useful as a level 78 ability, because it's for the downtime that happens in trials and raids--which you only get at level 80.

    It's free damage, I thought we liked free damage in the dps role.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Nominous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    372
    Character
    Nominous Lhant
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntler View Post
    It's free damage, I thought we liked free damage in the dps role.
    I can't complain about extra damage, but I don't think many people are? It's nice that we're getting all of our core rotation abilities before cap, for more reasons than one. But... on the other hand, it makes it more exciting to hit cap when your max level ability is a gamechanger, or something you've been looking forward to.

    That aside, it's an ability that you'll use what... maybe 3 times an encounter, if you're lucky? That might even be too generous. Nobody'll complain about the extra damage, but I'd wager very few people are going to find themselves stoked to have an ability that doesn't see much use. Not to mention, we've seen them add new skills and abilities to lower level ranges before (think Total Eclipse on Paladin, or how they moved Trick Attack to a lower level). Why not do that with Shoha? Hell, they could have replaced Ageha with it, even. Overall, there's just a lot of different ways they could have done it, and I don't know that they chose the path that was most fun.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Daralii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,102
    Character
    Endris Caemwynn
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nominous View Post
    I can't complain about extra damage, but I don't think many people are? It's nice that we're getting all of our core rotation abilities before cap, for more reasons than one. But... on the other hand, it makes it more exciting to hit cap when your max level ability is a gamechanger, or something you've been looking forward to.

    That aside, it's an ability that you'll use what... maybe 3 times an encounter, if you're lucky? That might even be too generous. Nobody'll complain about the extra damage, but I'd wager very few people are going to find themselves stoked to have an ability that doesn't see much use. Not to mention, we've seen them add new skills and abilities to lower level ranges before (think Total Eclipse on Paladin, or how they moved Trick Attack to a lower level). Why not do that with Shoha? Hell, they could have replaced Ageha with it, even. Overall, there's just a lot of different ways they could have done it, and I don't know that they chose the path that was most fun.
    It depends on fight design, but generally I'd expect one Shoha on an 8-man fight and that's it. You might not even get the full 500 if the boss disables you at some point during their ultimate like Shiva, Zurvan, Lakshmi, etc.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,870
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntler View Post
    It's free damage, I thought we liked free damage in the dps role.
    There is no such thing as free damage, especially for one who spends their entire time dealing damage. There is simply damage that must be balanced around the maximum output possible in the least applicable fights, the most applicable fights, or somewhere in between.

    The more fight-defined a situational skill is and the more powerful that skill is, the more chance a job has of being undertuned or overtuned for a particular fight. SAM, a high wind-up job with now slower responsiveness due to the loss of Hagakure's Sen-shedding has CD sync as per all jobs, is thus situationally affected by relatively little downtime ppm via lowish CD arsenal value (increased faintly off Ikishouten and Senei, but still well below most other jobs'), Seigan, and Meditation and Shoha. Seigan's efficiency bump is minimum to ensure that SAM won't be overtuned in fights with raid damage every 15 seconds just to compensate for those fights without said raid damage. Shoha, likewise, is a mere 500 potency over 10 seconds of charging. But that's still enough to make Down for the Count a far larger loss for us that for most jobs and prevent Shoha from giving back a bit of our missing downtime potency generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliadil View Post
    Double Midare can be quite satisfying, I mean... roughly 2400potency in a single GCD can be neat.
    Abilities are anything that have a recast time not equal to the global recast time. An Ability can also act as a weaponskill, however. We've already seen this with Heavensward's Empyreal Arrow (Speed-scalar) and any iteration of Meditation (non-scalar). It clearly takes an equal cast time to a regular Iajutsu and will trigger the global recast time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliadil View Post
    Sam will not be bad, but it will surely be akward in a lot of group situations now where timing and the ability to sync with your group are really needed.

    Also, yeah, 2 or 3 sen opener, even some 1 sen openers will be even more of a pain now because we'll have to use an empty Midare just to "reset" the Sen counter during the start of the fight...
    This is the main takeaway for me. I don't understand how one can say that Hagakure makes our rotation more complicated without also noting that it makes it more flexible and convenient.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Eliadil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    131
    Character
    Adrila Messor
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Abilities are anything that have a recast time not equal to the global recast time. An Ability can also act as a weaponskill, however. We've already seen this with Heavensward's Empyreal Arrow (Speed-scalar). It clearly takes an equal cast time to a regular Iajutsu and will trigger the global recast time.
    Okay I didn't knew that, Empyreal Arrow is a Weaponskill now too, so it seems they changed it. And yeah, if the second Iaijutsu triggers the GCD it's not as good as expected then... Too bad.

    Also, isn't Meditate 15sec and not 10 ? From what I've seen, we gain a stack of Meditation each time we generate kenki with it. So 5 times in 15sec... Which doesn't make it better, like not at all.

    Can't wait for 5.1 for SAM adjustments then... Or maybe not ? We'll see. Maybe we'll be way overtuned at max gear level with full materia, but I somehow doubt it, the whole changes does sound underwhelming for now.

    We'll see that soon enough, EA is near now, maybe in a month or two we'll have this whole thing entirely figured out.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Tracewood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Bast-- Ul'Dah.
    Posts
    556
    Character
    Eugene Tracewood
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 92
    I'm going to enjoy SAM a whole lot more it seems. I'm a little worried people will insist on other jobs for raiding since I pug and don't have time for statics anymore, but I think at my age I'll step away from raiding and just focus on clearing primals.

    The AF looks super great, not really keen on the mask, but love the half-coat thing going on. Like to see more insane katana designs, the default thin blade is starting to feel very same-y.
    (0)

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