Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

[Bedlaam]

What they should have done is use this exact system, except keep the old buffs for individual cards the same (excepting spire of course now with removal of TP). They should cut the potency of the old cards in half and then using minor Arcana should convert it into a new card with double potency. Arrow > Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay of a party member or self by 5%, or 'Lord of Arrows' > Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay of a party member or self by 10%.

Keep the new sigil system on top of the cards and keep the aoe effect as a 6% raid wide dps buff. This maintains unique-card-job-relationships.

[Suishouhime]

The worst part of these changes, to me, is that they can't really be salvaged by patches, either - it's a fundamental rework to how the system functions. The only thing that'll let me keep playing is if they revert the cards back to their original purposes. Although the dps numbers might ultimately be the same, numerical value doesn't represent how a class feels to play.

I'm not sure what the rationale behind this change was, honestly. Given AST still has utility with the damage boost, I think it's supposed to be aimed at meta-raiding parsers who just ultimately care about higher dps numbers and faster clears, rather than actually using the cards in creative ways? But the fun of AST wasn't in how big you could make the numbers go, it was the illusion of versatility and the choices you made regarding who you gave the cards to, whether you burned them for the buff, whether you converted them to Minor Arcana, and whether playing something was worth it using up the buff vs the risk of not playing anything while you wait for the ideal card.

Plus, there was the situational nature of the cards, too. AoE Royal Road might've been useful in raids, but single-target potency and duration were more useful in dungeons. Even Spire had its uses, like clearing big dungeon pulls and the DPS weren't using Tactician/Goad, and Ewer has saved many of my pug raids when my cohealer wasn't pulling their weight and I needed the mana boost to output consistent heals and raises. Throwing out a mindless Balance wasn't as entertaining as choosing to give the Arrow to a SAM or a BLM, and same with giving Spear to a DRG or MNK or BRD. Sure, it wasn't as optimal as Balance, but it added a level of decision-making that kept it fun.

Same with other abilities, too: Lady of Crowns gave me a decent amount of wiggle-room with its instant heal; Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition were super versatile in how they synergised with other buffs; choosing when to use Collective Unconscious since you were immobile for it (which I guess you can still do, but now you can also do it as SCH and WHM, so it feels less like a benefit of playing AST).

All of that's gone, now. Major bummer.

[Elamys]

There are so many problems with this system as a whole. It's the core aspect of AST's gameplay, what differentiated it from SCH/WHM (let's face it, AST is STILL a taped together SCH/WHM with these changes) and now it's been reduced to this.

It shouldn't be more appealing to me to Minor Arcana a card when Divination isn't available. We don't need 6 cards when there's only 3 unique effects just to support Diviniation. And everything being a basic flat damage increase is, well, boring.

I would have rather they flat out removed Balance than done this. This is insulting.

[MrAptronym]

While the new card system is bland looking, I do think there is some gameplay there that isn't bad. While I liked that 4-person and 8-person teams used the old system differently, that is probably something they wanted to discourage, and I can understand that. Losing the ability to use other cards when you needed is sad, but with less crit reliance in ShB and the removal of TP, the situation was going to get more balance focused than it was. This version does make it more obvious how to play the job well. I am coming around to this being a good change.

I am still pretty unhappy about the removal of much of our time mage flavor. That is something I wanted *more* of, not less. Celestial Opposition in particular was an interesting and fun skill.

Moving gravity to 45 and removing the damage falloff is really good though, and I think neutral aspect is a fun capstone skill. (Though terribly named! "Crepuscular" is a word that means "Of or relating to twiligt" and "Crepuscular Aspect" would have fit perfectly!)

[KanameYuuki]

They really need to change the name of that skill, Neutral sounds like is no good with one or the other, but something like Twilight, Eclipse Trance or honestly,anything but neutral would make it sound more like a perfect mixture and balance of both.

They have great name for AST skills: Lightspeed, Time Dilation, Collective Unconscious, Celestial Opposition, Earthly Star, etc. and then Neutral Sect.

[Sanghelios]

The worst part of these changes, to me, is that they can't really be salvaged by patches, either - it's a fundamental rework to how the system functions.

Yea, thats really sad indeed. The earliest point of fundamental changes would be after this expansion.

[Rahspdoy]

I made my own post about this but figured i'd copy/past here just to join the Discussion.

Its the changes to the 'non-healing' side of Astro that i feel was butchered. The Entire card system for Astro has been 98% gutted.

For instance, take below:


On the left, you have Astro's options as of Heavensward and Stormblood 'purely' on the side of how their card system worked. On the right, you have what i could best do to describe what the 'new' card system is based off the media build you let people record their gameplay of. And this is from a person who has PLAYED Astro, and LIKES Astro. (its the one and only healer in FFXIV i enjoy playing). That is how i 'visually' feel you turned Astro's card system into.

The 'new' Card system is only Damage % buff. Nothing else. Just Damage % bonus.
1 card that gives 8% damage bonus to mele dps and 4% damage bonus to ranged dps.
And a 2nd card that does the opposite, 8% damage bonus to ranged dps, and 4% damage bonus to melee dps.
Then you have 3 signs that are randomly assigned to these 2 cards.

Using cards with 3 different signs in a row, unlocks.... get this... a 'better' Damage % buff.

They have taken a 'fun' Card system that used 6 different cards, and turned it into a 2 card + 3 sign system.

You dont even NEED 6 cards anymore.. in fact i can only guess they left it as 6 cards to make it 'seem' as if there were more options than there actually is. At its 'core', the current changes to Astro = a 50% chance on if we get the Mele or Ranged DPS card, and a 33% Chance on if we get 1 of the 3 signs.

6 cards, down to 2. With 3 'signs' for the sake of the new 'bonus % damage buff' mechanic.

Thats it.. thats the entirety of the Astro card system as of ShadowBringers if they go through with the changes that were in the Media preview build.

1. pull card
2. Check the sign, have you used it yet? yes/no
2.a if yes, cycle.
2.b If no, what class? ranged or mele?
3. Cast card on friend of appropriate clsss ranged/mele.
4. return to step 1.

Thats it.

ALL of the diversity that many of us Astro players LIKED about the class.. is gone.

When I am currently playing as my Astro, i get to make on the fly choices. Do i want to give this Ninja a Skill-speed Buff... or give him Crit chance?. Do i want to give the Crit-Chance to the bard and instead give the Skill-Speed to the BLM? Or do i want to cycle Balance and get a more powerfull version of the Crit-chance buff and throw that on the ninja?

In ShadowBringers?..... 2 choices. Is my target Ranged or Mele? And have i used this sign before? Thats it.... thats not fun.. thats Dull, thats boring.

The people in the party may as well just bring + Damage % food items with them rather than us. As WHM's will still have better (more potent) 'healing' abilities than we will have.

[Rahspdoy]

I'm actually ok with it?

From what I understand the cards are nerfed but it's more about having options of drawing specific cards and doing so more frequently. My only "concern" is the Divination buff, which is a good idea in theory, feels clunky in potency compared to duration. 15 seconds of 6% damage up every 3 minutes that's low compared to the potential spread balance we had every minute.
I don't know if someone already has mathed out the frequency of drawing and having cards up on individuals compared to every 30 seconds (every minute if you royal road). I think it's just a different playstyle. I want to play it before saying it's been slaughtered.

Now the healing oGCDs are a bliss, not just kicking WHM in the gutter once more, I love how AST embraces its versatility now. Coupled with a SCH, it's going to be very powerful, healing wise.

Its not that the cards are 'nerfed' is that you lack choices.

we 'had' 6 cards with 6 individual effects.

Now we have 2 cards, and the chance of 1 or 3 different 'seals' appearing above those 2 cards. Oh, and both cards to essentially the same exact thing. One just gives a better bonus to mele, while the other gives a better bonus to ranged.

They didnt 'nerf' the cards, they removed them. and gave us a coin to flip instead.

[Cheremia]

Ast cards now: Royal road/minor arcana ewer or spire, maybe use ewer on a healer that died if you have it for fodder.
Maybe use a spire on a dps in dungeons for aoe.

Fishing for spear for monks and bards and balance for everybody, arrow could go on the caster in case you get nothing else. But what everybody wants is balance since balance is the best anyways.

Repeat.
Get bad cards and just minor arcana them since you can't do anything else with ewers and spires other than royal road but it's already on aoe.

But the decisions of maybe spreading a bole is gone, oh no, just use aspected helios in shield and or use the bubble, the bubble is amazing, asts don't use the bubble, why not use bubble, bubble nice, bubble friend.
The ability to help a res'ed healer is gone but what ast usually holds anything but an balance/spear or maybe pity arrow?

Ast cards in shadowbringers:
Still rng, but now ranged and melee are seperated. Each has 3 cards, each different card has a different seal. ALL are balances, all have the same effect
YOu want to fish for the buff your team needs depending on what class they are(don't forget that it will take more time in 8player content) to get 3 seals to use divination for an extra buff, repeat.

What you lose: Aoe, bole, tp/mp management tools that 90% aren't used since the ewer/spire got foddered off already for minor arcana or royal road.


Also, bards procs will not be dependant on crit anymore, they don't need spears anymore.

And you can't tell me that your tank loves getting a bole after an aoe balance because they apparently can't have it. ANd that it's really needed.
It's just a nice tool to have but the actual usability of it is niche at best.


TBH it doesn't sound too different to me, it's just different... dunno man, i will see. But the cards are the tiniest problemchange in my opinion since it's a tastething and we can't really talk about a TASTE thing without being able to actually TEST it. SInce looking is still different than playing yourself.

[Rahspdoy]

*snip*
TBH it doesn't sound too different to me, it's just different... dunno man, i will see. But the cards are the tiniest problemchange in my opinion since it's a tastething and we can't really talk about a TASTE thing without being able to actually TEST it. SInce looking is still different than playing yourself.

To make it as simple as possible, its about choice.

Those of us who 'liked' having multiple options given to us, because it made the class 'fun' are upset that we are having all semblance of 'choice' removed.

Those who ignored all choices and only 'fished for balance', like the change because the change caters to their playstyle, literally, by making every single card balance.

To many people, the fact that we had multiple ways to 'use' cards, is what made it 'fun' to play. While those who rolled their eyes every time they didn't get a balance card hated the fact that there were actually 'different' ways to play.

The change takes away 'all' semblance of 'multiple ways to play'. And makes it literally a 1-trick-pony gimmick.

Which, makes those who rolled their eyes all the time when they didnt get a balance happy. But all but destroys any 'want' those of us who liked the variety had for playing the class.