Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

[MintnHoney]

We see "some" feedback, he says. There's a hell of a lot more than just "some" feedback going on, Yoshi. Contempt, indeed.

[Hatstand]

“Some people like the new one”, he says. I mean, people are still playing it, it must be just as good...

Never mind that there are 4.6 times as many WHM parses as AST parses on fflogs, which is our only real metric I can find on how much classes are getting played at cap, since the census just counts how many people have reached level 80.

I’d say that, while there are people who like the new AST, there are significantly more people who like the old (at least among AST mains. I think there are a lot of dps mains who like their balance bots). SE should learn what they can from what people like about the new system, improve the old one, and give us that.

[KanameYuuki]

And this part of the community on the English forum is tame compared to mainland JP, someone said there that overseas there is still a "healthy" population of people still playing AST (I was leveling like a madman for the Amaro mount and I'd be lucky if I got teamed up with an AST once a day) unlike there (in JP DCs) where AST are but extinct, so just imagine.

[Almostward]

Basically hes saying we dont care about the many who we have made mad. We only care about those who agree with us. Deal with it.

[Brandedblade]

We've got this gem:



Perfectly fine to please the new ones but a middle finger for the old guard, welp.

Yall are proving his point. Someone is always going to he displeased.

[MintnHoney]

Yall are proving his point. Someone is always going to he displeased.

And yet, all he's really saying is that he doesn't care that he knowingly upset many of the original players of the jobs in question, though in Ninja's case he's more receptive to the feedback because it's a DPS job.
It goes both ways: we proved his point, he's proving ours.

[Hatstand]

Yall are proving his point. Someone is always going to he displeased.

Yes, but who is displeased, why, and how many people are displeased are important.

For example, imagine 5 friends are deciding what to get for dinner. Alice, Bob, Charlie, and David wamt Thai. Emma wants pizza. Emma argues that no matter which food they get, someone will be unhappy, so they may as well get pizza. We wouldn't think Emma had much of an argument.

Similarly, according to flogs, AST use is only at about 25% of what it should be (for all healers to be equally well played), so it seems SE is making the Emmas happy and ignoring everyone else.

As another example, imagine it's just Alice and Bob. Alice wants Pizza, Bob wants Thai, but Alice wants pizza because she's alergic to nuts and she's worried she won't be able to eat any food at the Thai restaurant safely. Again, one will be unhappy regardless of the outcome, but we'd still think Alice's preference should take priority because of the reasons for it.

Similarly, many controller players report that new AST is very difficult to play well on a controller because of how often and rapidly you need to target specific party members. Even if 50% of ASTs liked new AST (which I don't believe), controller issues alone would justify another change to the card system.

Finally, imagine that Alice, Bob, and Charlie are going out for dinner, and David will be given whatever leftovers are being brought home (although he's not contributing to the cost of the meal). Alice and Bob want Thai. Charlie and David want pizza. In this situation we would think they should get Thai, because, while David is affected by the choice, he's not affected as much as Alice, Bob, and Charlie, nor is he contributing to their meal.

Similarly, many people who don't play AST seem to like the benefits they get from new AST, and while their opinions have value, they shouldn't carry as much weight as the opinions of people who feel the effect of the AST toolkit the most (the ASTs) and those who put in the work involved with the ASTs presence (again, the AST).

This situation, unlike the new AST, has nuance.

[Mesarthim]

Yall are proving his point. Someone is always going to he displeased.

You mean the point that wouldn't have been a thing had they not done this rather controversial change in the first place?

You're talking like we're only "mad" because we're displeased with the changes because there is now a new vs old, two camps essentially. There didn't need to be a second camp in the first place.

[Brandedblade]

You mean the point that wouldn't have been a thing had they not done this rather controversial change in the first place?

You're talking like we're only "mad" because we're displeased with the changes because there is now a new vs old, two camps essentially. There didn't need to be a second camp in the first place.

If the old card system was in place, there would be people complaining about the rng or the fact that there's one card that's been mathed out to he the next card. There will always be two camps, the one that likes the new and one that does not. No matter what they do there will be someome who likes it and someone who doesn't.

[Mesarthim]

If the old card system was in place, there would be people complaining about the rng or the fact that there's one card that's been mathed out to he the next card. There will always be two camps, the one that likes the new and one that does not. No matter what they do there will be someome who likes it and someone who doesn't.

No one is saying it was perfect. Literally all that needed to be done was modify Spire and Balance really. "This" card system didn't need to happen. The old system didn't need to be as gutted as it was for a system people who didn't even really play AST seem to like (and if they did play AST and hate it then ???).

See here's the thing. They didn't have to do something because in case you haven't noticed AST popularity seems to have tanked quite a bit, unless I am mistaken. Drop the whole "no matter what X does, Y will be angry" stuff. AST didn't deserve this because guess what? There's 2 other healers for the people who didn't like AST before to play. Maybe one of them could suit them.

I really don't seem to be seeing sunshines and rainbows with the current AST, nor do a lot of other people if you've been keeping up with the community.