Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

**Suishouhime** · 07-04-2019 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Part of the issue is though, once you got to the point where people were farming the highest tier raids in the gaming, those situational cards became...useless. Which cards remain seen throughout all content? Balance, Spear, and Arrow, the DPS increasing cards, effectively making half of Astrologians previous kit unneeded. This is far less of an issue with what options Astrologian had, and more to do with how content is designed, but the new system already represents what any Astrologian was doing with familiar content.

But why does that matter? Situational cards indeed become useless in situations where they wouldn't be useful, but isn't that the definition of situational? They're not used in the situation of high-tier raiding, but a large majority of the content in this game isn't high-tier raiding. I do high-tier raiding on occasion, but I get most of my enjoyment from doing more social-oriented content like min-IL dungeons, daily roulettes, maps with my FC, hunts, PvP, boss FATEs and regular FATEs, 24-man raids, and all other sorts of things where those cards still saw active use.

That doesn't even address the fact that, while they might all increase DPS, it's a very different feeling to know that giving crit to a MNK or a BRD actually has an impact on their rotations themselves, giving them procs for their skills in a way that Balance wouldn't. I've known MNKs and BRDs who prefer Spear over Balance, purely because it's more fun to see their procs pop up more often. It also doesn't account for the fact that Arrow can be actively detrimental on some classes because of potential skill clipping, and can be frustrating to the point of clicking the buff off.

The cards might increase DPS numbers if you're simply looking at parses rather than how the class actually feels, but they all accomplish that in vastly different ways.

As I've been saying throughout this thread, high-tier raiding isn't the majority of the content in the game. It's not even a third of the content in the game. The vast majority of content still presented a variety of situations for cards other than the functional DPS increases, and I've already given you examples of times when cards other than Spear, Balance, and Arrow came in handy. The fact that AST can feel completely different in high-tier raids to regular pug content is proof of the fun in its versatility, not something that should be purged.

**gumas** · 07-04-2019 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by mooferz

Where are people getting these MP problems from? I'm thoroughly curious because I've seen a lot of people complaining about AST MP yet here I am that just recently hit 80 and finished MSQ with little issue.

Lucid Dreaming is available every minute now and Lightspeed lasts longer (and Essential Dignity doesn't need to crit anymore to reduce Lightspeed's cooldown.) With 2 charges Lightspeed is also up fairly quickly. Piety also helps with MP regen.

I agree with all the other problems AST has (boring cards, broken Play button, underwhelming new spells with long cooldowns) but I just don't see the MP issue people are having.

believe it or not some people can actually forgot that lucid dreaming is exist. when you are in the mid of intense healing and your mp is below 1/4, panic kick in.

also some people especially new comer has this bad habit of healing everyone using their strongest heal at their disposal, in AST case that would be spamming benefic 2 and aspected helios, those 2 alone take 2K from your 10K mp, so use it 5 times and you are pretty much out.

and not counting person like me who always dot every enemy tank pulled, 5 enemy = another 2K mp, and the occasional malefic

**Cyrocco** · 07-04-2019 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Suishouhime

But why does that matter?

This matters because raid healers only use damage utility and new healers don't know how to adapt to situations.

Astrologians who regularly matched a buff to the proper Job were likely in the minority.

Originally Posted by Suishouhime

As I've been saying throughout this thread, high-tier raiding isn't the majority of the content in the game.

From the highest tiered content to the lowest leve, once you're used to it, you don't need situational. This is how XIV works.

Originally Posted by Suishouhime

high-tier raiding isn't the majority of the content in the game.

What a coincidence, Ewer, Spire, and Bole usage aren't the majority of cast cards, should I just ignore them?

---

Originally Posted by Cyrocco

I don't really like that they've all been made into the same thing, there's definitely a better way to have gone about it,

Originally Posted by Suishouhime

...fun in its versatility, not something that should be purged.

I'm not really going to entertain an argument on this point, because I haven't stated an opposing opinion, so I don't know who this is directed at.

---

All things said and done, you prefer the old system, and I'd like to see what SE can do the the new one, and because

Originally Posted by Cyrocco

there's definitely a better way to have gone about it,

I hope to see the cards changed from pure DPS buffs, to something other than cards that saw pitiful amounts of use.

**kartana** · 07-04-2019 02:57 PM

The whole notion that the seals (one of the main component of the card system) are pointless outside of group content is ridiculous. Or am I missing something?

**Xelanar** · 07-04-2019 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by kartana

The whole notion that the seals (one of the main component of the card system) are pointless outside of group content is ridiculous. Or am I missing something?

You are not missing anything. Outside of group content you are equally / better off by just using lady of crowns. 3x Lady of Crowns nets a 6% increase in DPS(2% per card, stretched over 45 seconds). Since Astrologians lack any 'burst' where buff stacking becomes useful, seals do nothing for solo play.

The only reason for actually collecting seals would be a dps check of sorts, that required you to kill something in under 45 seconds.

**NobleWinter** · 07-04-2019 04:56 PM

Why can't the cards just have dual effects. Make the Melee cards: Balance, Spear, Arrow also increase Defense when given to a Tank. Then make the Ranged Cards: Ewer, Spire, and Bole restore MP when given to Healers. They could keep the blanket 3% and 6% damage increase as it is now but this would make giving basic cards to Tanks and Healers more worthwhile.

And to make it fancy reverse the effect of the card when Minor Arcana is used so that Tanks can get a damage buff but everyone else gets increased Defense from Lord of Crowns and Healers get a damage buff from Lady of Crowns but everyone else gets MP Refresh. So quick thinking and choice is still there but you always have the option for more damage for someone no matter what card is drawn and gain the ability to offer anyone in the party extra defense or MP in a pinch with the taste of RNG that appealed to Astrologian players in the first place.

**Suishouhime** · 07-05-2019 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Cyrocco

This matters because raid healers only use damage utility and new healers don't know how to adapt to situations.

This presupposes that Savage raid healers are the only players that matter, and that Savage raid content is the only content that matters. I disagree. I think content outside of Savage raiding also matters and that it's silly to remove a system which still saw a lot of versatile use outside of Savage.

Of course there's an adjustment period where new ASTs sub-50 are still learning the class, but I'm not sure why that's relevant, considering that applies to every single class's rotation and I'm sure nobody would argue that we should remove Aetherflow or Bahamut just because new SMN players need some time to adjust to their rotation and feel out the flow of it.

"New people need to learn their class" is hardly an indictment of the class's mechanics.

I'm also not sure what pug ASTs you were encountering, but I've rarely had a problem with ASTs not applying the buffs correctly. I've also never encountered AST mains who suddenly become too confused by anything other than damage utility when they do pug content after Savage raiding for a while.

Originally Posted by Cyrocco

From the highest tiered content to the lowest leve, once you're used to it, you don't need situational. This is how XIV works.

Unfortunately, that's not quite how words work. Those cards are still situational, and are still useful in those situations. Knowing how to adapt to those situational changes doesn't suddenly make them not situational changes - it's just proof of how skilled you've become at adapting to them.

Originally Posted by Cyrocco

What a coincidence, Ewer, Spire, and Bole usage aren't the majority of cast cards, should I just ignore them?

This is a nonsequitur. The majority of content isn't Savage raiding, and therefore there's still plenty of content where those cards are still played and still have functional utility.

Just because you don't personally use those cards a majority of the time doesn't mean that they lack use in general - they still have a wide array of uses, in fact, which I--and other users--have explained in this thread, and which you consistently seem to be ignoring in favour of talking about the one situation of Savage raids.

You're perfectly at liberty to ignore those cards if you want, though, I guess.

**BahamutxD** · 07-05-2019 04:22 AM

Old cards were alright except Spire, TP was useless most of the time and every? class had ways to recover TP.

Balance hunting was a side effect of healers being pushed to DPS as a consecuence of how the game encounters are designed. If the real difficulty came with healing spikes/more intensive fights with more random (unavoidable damage) other cards would be more useful.

This change wasn't necesary no matter how hard some players try to explain it and I agree with the above, high end raiders doesn't represent the vast majority of the game.

All cards being the same means no new cards ever in the future? Or will another total revamp come with 6.0? I don't see how this system can be good for the future.

Dumbing down a class and making it annoying goes against the idea of them saying they ain't releasing a new healer because they want to fix healers.

Sorry but I rather have broken healers, atleast I enjoyed playing the game.

**ShinShimon** · 07-05-2019 06:52 AM

Can we please just have the old card system back? They said to wait and try it out. I did, and it's as bsd as I thought it would be. Everything interesting about the mechanic is gone, 15s cooldown is too hectic, and individual cards have no oomph.

Revert to the old system, make Spire a direct hit buff, remove expanded RR and split Spire/Ewer between the other 2 types, and adjust card strength as balance requires. If balance fishing prepull is such a problem, give us a long CD that refreshes on wipes, and give you two Balances.

**Israphel84** · 07-05-2019 08:22 AM

I just would like to know why did they do all this nerf? Did they listen to the ppl who wasn't familiar with the job who only did AoE Balance?
Here we are lots of astrologians complaining for this BS nerf, so idk if they will listen.
I am sad because AST was my favourite job. I was so used to it that I could almost automatically create combos depending on the party / alliance situation. I think most of us think the same and did the same.
I know it's impossible now but I'd like to see the old card system. Again, Divination is garbage, Celestial Opposition is super garbage (I thougth that it was gonna be like Assize but hell no, how wrong I was)... Still need to level up to 80 to see if I go on or completely retire my AST

Thread: Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

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