Thread: Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

Originally Posted by Ceasaria

I had a teamate Ninja who really loved Arrow and did very well with it.

It wouldn't surprise me. I couldn't make use of it without clipping myself, but I'm sure a better NIN player than me could; I just base my card decisions off my own experience with receiving them unless I'm told otherwise.

Originally Posted by Suishouhime

It wouldn't surprise me. I couldn't make use of it without clipping myself, but I'm sure a better NIN player than me could; I just base my card decisions off my own experience with receiving them unless I'm told otherwise.

Better or not, could you imagine a ninja with coupling Bunshin with Arrow?

Now I see their problem with AST: if they'd kept the previous cards, there would have been new synergies that would have formed. I guess being able to deploy Cleric stance on everyone was the only way they could think of that would prevent us from helping anyone in a cool and meaningful way, when they wanted only Dancer to have synergies.

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Better or not, could you imagine a ninja with coupling Bunshin with Arrow?

Now I see their problem with AST: if they'd kept the previous cards, there would have been new synergies that would have formed. I guess being able to deploy Cleric stance on everyone was the only way they could think of that would prevent us from helping anyone in a cool and meaningful way, when they wanted only Dancer to have synergies.

I don't think they did it on purpose. But I DO blame DNC partly for the change. The big blame is them taking away things like TP. Changing the system that much on the back end threw Astro out the window. Astro was bunked the moment SE choose to buff defense, mana and kill TP.

Again, though, I think the problem is people focusing too much on rDPS for Savage over literally every other type of content; the large majority of things to do in this game aren't meta-optimised Savage raids, and these problems of meta obsession to the exclusion of non-meta choices aren't a problem for the majority of players, because it never stops people running dungeon roulette, or treasure maps, or FATEs, or hunts, or 24-man raids, or Ex trials, or even the regular 8-man raids. I don't think everything should be balanced around something a minority of people play, especially not when it results in removing mechanics that give a job a strong sense of identity.

There's a reason why the Destiny community is and has always been peeved that the game removes PvE fun and utility because of balancing issues in PvP. FFXIV avoids that by simply balancing PvP separately. Similarly, if rDPS is the sole issue regarding why AST's cards had to be removed or fundamentally changed, you do the easy thing: balance Savage raids separately, too.

Originally Posted by Suishouhime

Again, though, I think the problem is people focusing too much on rDPS for Savage over literally every other type of content; the large majority of things to do in this game aren't meta-optimised Savage raids, and these problems of meta obsession to the exclusion of non-meta choices aren't a problem for the majority of players, because it never stops people running dungeon roulette, or treasure maps, or FATEs, or hunts, or 24-man raids, or Ex trials, or even the regular 8-man raids. I don't think everything should be balanced around something a minority of people play, especially not when it results in removing mechanics that give a job a strong sense of identity.

This.
Most of the AST utility shines in semi-casual content where players can die multiple times during single fight and a well placed Uwer can save you from solohealing for the next couple minutes.

Allow me to preface this by saying I am NOT a healer, so this is coming from an outside perspective. If the goal of ShB when it refers to healers was to increase the healing requirements and allow a more balanced (heh) approach between time spent DPS and time spent healing, doesnt the new card system make sense? If you as a healer are forced to heal more often with your GCD then having a system in place to be able to continually contribute to rDPS passively make the most sense? It may not be quite as exciting but it is a HELL of a lot more consistent. Before was it not just either YAY I got a Balance OR well no Balance guess I'll use this instead??

Originally Posted by SkyEdge1

I am NOT a healer [...] It may not be quite as exciting

This attitude is the problem. You want the class to be less fun to play because you only care about how it increases your own DPS in Savage content.

Fun is subjective though, what you consider to be boring other players may see as a better playstyle. More than that, we dont know what the healing requirements will be like in anything other than a media build on a lvl 73 dungeon. Much less what Savage will be like and Ultimate after so my point is simply that, if you need to spend more time actively healing, is having a consistent easily accessible passive rDPS increase actually bad? Again these are outside perspectives but a large reason that Bard was so popular during SB and MCH wasn't was in part due to its performance in raiding and its perceived importance in the speed kill meta. So unfortunate as it may be, what matters to end game players does matter to casual players and non raiders as well.