Thread: Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

The worst part of these changes, to me, is that they can't really be salvaged by patches, either - it's a fundamental rework to how the system functions. The only thing that'll let me keep playing is if they revert the cards back to their original purposes. Although the dps numbers might ultimately be the same, numerical value doesn't represent how a class feels to play.

I'm not sure what the rationale behind this change was, honestly. Given AST still has utility with the damage boost, I think it's supposed to be aimed at meta-raiding parsers who just ultimately care about higher dps numbers and faster clears, rather than actually using the cards in creative ways? But the fun of AST wasn't in how big you could make the numbers go, it was the illusion of versatility and the choices you made regarding who you gave the cards to, whether you burned them for the buff, whether you converted them to Minor Arcana, and whether playing something was worth it using up the buff vs the risk of not playing anything while you wait for the ideal card.

Plus, there was the situational nature of the cards, too. AoE Royal Road might've been useful in raids, but single-target potency and duration were more useful in dungeons. Even Spire had its uses, like clearing big dungeon pulls and the DPS weren't using Tactician/Goad, and Ewer has saved many of my pug raids when my cohealer wasn't pulling their weight and I needed the mana boost to output consistent heals and raises. Throwing out a mindless Balance wasn't as entertaining as choosing to give the Arrow to a SAM or a BLM, and same with giving Spear to a DRG or MNK or BRD. Sure, it wasn't as optimal as Balance, but it added a level of decision-making that kept it fun.

Same with other abilities, too: Lady of Crowns gave me a decent amount of wiggle-room with its instant heal; Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition were super versatile in how they synergised with other buffs; choosing when to use Collective Unconscious since you were immobile for it (which I guess you can still do, but now you can also do it as SCH and WHM, so it feels less like a benefit of playing AST).

All of that's gone, now. Major bummer.

Originally Posted by Suishouhime

The worst part of these changes, to me, is that they can't really be salvaged by patches, either - it's a fundamental rework to how the system functions.

Yea, thats really sad indeed. The earliest point of fundamental changes would be after this expansion.

While the new card system is bland looking, I do think there is some gameplay there that isn't bad. While I liked that 4-person and 8-person teams used the old system differently, that is probably something they wanted to discourage, and I can understand that. Losing the ability to use other cards when you needed is sad, but with less crit reliance in ShB and the removal of TP, the situation was going to get more balance focused than it was. This version does make it more obvious how to play the job well. I am coming around to this being a good change.

I am still pretty unhappy about the removal of much of our time mage flavor. That is something I wanted *more* of, not less. Celestial Opposition in particular was an interesting and fun skill.

Moving gravity to 45 and removing the damage falloff is really good though, and I think neutral aspect is a fun capstone skill. (Though terribly named! "Crepuscular" is a word that means "Of or relating to twiligt" and "Crepuscular Aspect" would have fit perfectly!)

this is just a small porportion and most of the community especially the main healers are noticing 10k threads of over exaggerating the state of healers. Trust SE, you will be fine and you'll thank them for it later. Let go of meta, let go of premonitions of what you think is right, they tested it it makes since and it looks wonderful. At least TRY it first. All these doom and gloom threads

I guess I'm not surprised by all the negativity in this thread. 5.0 AST is definitely no longer 4.0 AST that is for certain. Duration extentions from CO and TD, +potency, +AoE, +duration, def%^, speed%^, crit%^, MP regeneration, TP regeneration, Royal Road/Empty Road, Spread/Undraw Spread, ogcd ST damage (Lord), ogcd ST heal (Lady) are all gone. Wow!

Now look at that list. It's not only staggering that it was all taken away; it is equally staggering AST had it all in the first place. That is an insane amount of utility, and I didn't even mention it all. AST also has Lightspeed, Essential Dignity (unique ogcd heal), Sects, Synastry, and Sleeve Draw. You'll notice that I did not include Collective Unconscious, and that is because everything I just listed in this clause is what AST brought to the table that no other healer does. Even from the first list, there is a lot that is exclusive to AST.

I'm also shocked that the majority of the negativity is because of the change to the cards. The def%^, speed%^, crit%^, MP regeneration, TP regeneration doesn't even make up half of what AST lost, and of those five bonuses, two of them are undesirable and burned the majority of the time, while the other three are all just variations of what they ultimately do; Increase DMG. Yet, AST got to keep what was desired most. If I was a dev, I would feel like I just bought my daughter who loves ponies six of them, and then she got mad at me for it. Color me confused as eff.

I actually would agree about the cards if you weren't still essentially fishing for 1 of 3 desirables. AST is still basically looking for either 1 of 3 variations of cards when they draw. Before it was Balance, Spear, or Arrow. Now AST will be looking for 1 of 3 seals, but providing dmg up buffs while they do it. Even if you enjoyed having six different choices of buffs, your party didn't. Your tanks don't care about the Bole; they have defensive CDs and invul skills. Mages didn't care about the Ewer; they have MP regeneration skills and BRD. Nobody cared about the Spire. All they want is for you to increase their DMG output. They will be sad AST can no longer increase durations though. AST is still going to be meta though, and you all already know why.

Now the skill Divination is what I somewhat have an issue with, because there should be a difference in increase from 1 seal to 2. I believe this will get changed in the near future. In the WHM thread I said they suffered the least from loss of DPS skills, but that still entails suffering. AST didn't suffer at all, and the other two healers have been reduced to the same: one DoT, at least one AoE, and a filler. It is a bit of a disappointment that AST did not get any new offensive skill, especially after how well they did with Earthly Star in SB. But the updates to Malefic and Combust look absolutely wonderful.

As weird as this is to say, the biggest disappointment with AST for me, is out of all that utility they lost, next to none of it was given to WHM. Could've gave them speed, crit, mp refresh... They did get a damage reduction buff, so I guess that's something. But yeah, real head scratcher. Same with giving them Plenary Indulgence. Like what the actual eff?

Next to all of that I liked everything enough to give it another go. I'm not going to lie that they have simplified this job a bit. I know full well how good and engaging this job is to play right now. I truly do sympathize with the AST mains out there who must feel gutted from the losses. But I honestly believe the core concept of this job is still intact. I think this is the job that will surprisingly play to satisfaction, and some might even feel a bit relieved that they are no longer burdened with so much utility. We're still going to be able to buff the group while playing a RNG game with the card deck, and still keep others healed and contribute damage. Lowering Gravity to 45 is also godsend. I'm sure at least that is a welcome change we can all agree on.

AST grade: C+

Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm also shocked that the majority of the negativity is because of the change to the cards. The def%^, speed%^, crit%^, MP regeneration, TP regeneration doesn't even make up half of what AST lost, and of those five bonuses, two of them are undesirable and burned the majority of the time, while the other three are all just variations of what they ultimately do; Increase DMG. Yet, AST got to keep what was desired most. If I was a dev, I would feel like I just bought my daughter who loves ponies six of them, and then she got mad at me for it. Color me confused as eff.

Balance being heavily desired and ewer/spire being royal road fuel aren't things people liked. Those three cards needed a rework, but this way is crazy lazy. I don't want to be a the raid damage buff bot, and instead they not only doubled down on that role, they gutted every bit of complexity from the mechanic.