Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

**tesni_g** · 07-09-2019 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by lordparanoia

I think the new cards system is really time-consuming with low rewards in terms of buffs. You need to press 3 buttons and switch target (and even think WHO is going to receive the card, if melee or ranged) to use one ability that gives only 5% of buff. When you use Redraw you have to repeat this as fast as you can. Meanwhile you have to manage with the mechanics, with the heals, with the dps.
Why did they kill AST?
It feels like they wanted to make Astrologians too much complicated but also if you play it perfectly I think it's not worth.
Cooldowns are ridicolous. Celestial Opposition is weak. Collective Unconscious is weak. Horoscope feels like they wanted to copy Plenary Indulgence. Neutral Sect has long cooldown and allow you to use 2 Aspected helios (if you don't want to overwrite them). Mana management is totally disgusting: if you die after using Lucid Dreaming, you can say goodbye to your mana for the next minute and half.
Why we have 6 cards that do the same thing, with other 2 cards that do just a little better than the other 6?
Astrologian is in the worst position ever. I think that WHM+SCH is meta right now. The only way SE found to make white mage great again was to destroy astrologian.

Gj. Change my mind.

This is basically my experience. I leveled SCH and AST in tandem. I gave AST a good try, but my god the cards are so many buttons for so little reward. AST cooldowns are spaced too far apart, they are weak, and there aren't enough of them. Helios and Asp. Helios aren't strong enough to compensate for those spaces in between cooldowns. If I only have to spam Malefic, it's okay to weave cards. Not good. Okay. Play's lag time is unplayable, and clips so bad with full cast heals. I understand that the game needs to check that I'm in combat and my target is the preferred recipient of the card, but the lag is atrocious.

I like the idea of Horoscope but in practice it falls flat. It needs two ogcds and requires two windows of opportunity, which is a crazy amount of work for a small heal.

I'm pretty bummed about this because I came into 5.0 believing that no matter how AST was changed, I could learn and eventually accept it. But I hit 80 on SCH and realized I wouldn't be switching back to "my main."

If AST gets buffed in .05, I will give it another try. But I'm not going to play a class that gives nothing but a marginal buff and repetitive strain injury.

**Boomsmash** · 07-09-2019 09:30 AM

So. I just finally ran AST full up, for the first time during this expansion.

Ups:

Dear lord, you can stack 3 HoTs together for around 210 potency. Most stuff kinda sorta works.
Heals still pretty much work decently.
The Lucid Dreaming time decrease seems to offset the loss of Ewer and Mana Shift and stuff, you just need to pop it whenever it's off cooldown to stay good.

Downs:

Gravity costs more than SCH or WHM's spammable AoEs and does less damage.
Combust 3 has less potency than Combust 2 did, and the WHM and SCH DoTs leave it in the dust at 60 vs 45
Malific 4 is a tiny increase in potency that gets left in the dust by SCH and WHM single target damages.
Cards. Dear lord cards. I'm giving this its own section.

Cards:

We used to have 6 cards with symbols that were recognizeable, each with its own effect that was tied into the lore and the job quests.
Learning to use all the cards where they could best be used is what separated decent AST from high level ones, because you could learn when to hold them, when to play them, when to Road them and such.
The current system has managed to simultaneously give folks "what they wanted" while consuming 3 times the time and mental resources to use them well, so good job there guys.

Ignore what the cards actually are. And, you know, all the previous meaning and lore and stuff.
Pay attention to the color of the boundary to know which of the 2 roles benefits best from it.
Squint at the NOTABLY (12 times!) SMALLER SEAL to see what it is. Ignore the fact that the seals and astrological symbol colors clash for most of the cards.
Try and make sure you don't already have that seal.

If you have that seal already, either suck it or Redraw and go to 1.

If you don't have that seal already, great, find someone that can use the card.

Target them, play the card.

Realize that while doing that you probably compared pretty well to someone texting while driving because you weren't looking at what else is going on.

5. If you have all 3 seals, check if Horoscope is off cooldown or not. If it is, use it and profit. If not...
6. Start using Minor Arcana to get a little boost, and more or less ignore the seals, just throw them out as fast as you can to anybody, just looking at the color before slamming it on them.

Really? I mean, really? I can understand Draw and Play separating, BUT

If Draw just had charges it would have accomplished the same thing as their supposed purpose, which was uncoupling draw and play timers from each other.
Spire could have just buffed Determination or Direct Hit.
If you thought the old system was hard you haven't seriously considered how much brain you're grinding on this one.

Addendum: Okay. So making the Arcana Gauge Simple and 200%-Huge, then pushing it as far below the screen as possible, seems to help give enough to focus on what actually means something on the cards. Has anyone gone back through the job quests to see if they changed them to "Ignore the constellation and look at the seal"? Because that's what you have to do.

**Hysterior** · 07-09-2019 03:01 PM

So far, AST does not feel super good when using a controller. Manually dispensing each card is taking quite some time.
Probably not a major issue for keyboard/mouse users but definitely not optimal for controller use

**Boomsmash** · 07-11-2019 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

.
Lightspeed is also now saved (optimally) for Divination/Sleeve Draw windows, meaning that you can no longer use it for periods of heavy movement, MP conservation, or when you really need to get those heals off fast, which removes a lot of the versatility from the skill. Not using it during a Divination window means that you end up hurting your party members by being unable to throw out enough buffs during the time period due to having to double weave Draw and Minor Arcana between GCDs to Play Lords/Ladies while Divination is active.

I kind of have to disagree and agree on this one. It's "optimal" for DPS when you can be a turret. Real, optimal use depends on fight, phase, skill of all the party members, etc. Construct 8 phase 2's laser rotation? Lightspeed and Sprint are both getting blown, because otherwise most of my party will be dead. And as another has as a sigline, dead DPS do no damage.

I understand that I'm kind of restating what was said, but it's to call bullshit on the "you can no longer use it for periods of heavy movement, MP conservation, or when you really need to get those heals off fast" part. If I can use it for buffs great, but those are like Job 3. Job 1 is "Prevent floor tanking".

**EchuKayu** · 07-12-2019 02:51 AM

I will echo the sentiment that it feels really bad to have 3 seals and have absolutely nothing to do with them until the next Divination comes up. I don't see why the CD on Divination is so high when our overall raid contribution is probably lower than a SMN. Why not reduce the CD? Why not remove the mindlessness of Minoring every card after 3 seals and instead make that seal overwrite one of the same seal and reduce the CD a bit, or allow us to use them on another ability? I don't get it.

AST suffers the same problem with their seals as SCH do with their Aetherflow, you're just sitting on this "resource" that's irrelevant.

**Boomsmash** · 07-12-2019 06:40 AM

WHM gets the Blood Lily and other such damaging synergies from their builders. I'd love to get 3 seals and be able to fire off a target-centered AoE. "Wheel of Misfortune"

**LadyKairi** · 07-12-2019 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Boomsmash

WHM gets the Blood Lily and other such damaging synergies from their builders. I'd love to get 3 seals and be able to fire off a target-centered AoE. "Wheel of Misfortune"

No thank you. Let’s not give the other healers more of what whm has. If you want a nuke like whm, play whm. Ast does need something to spend excess seals on, but let’s think of unique ideas. Not taking unique skills from other jobs, especially whm whom has shared more than enough of their skills with us asts/schs over the years. Healers need more uniqueness, not more homogenization than what we got.

**TankHunter678** · 07-12-2019 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by LadyKairi

No thank you. Let’s not give the other healers more of what whm has. If you want a nuke like whm, play whm. Ast does need something to spend excess seals on, but let’s think of unique ideas. Not taking unique skills from other jobs, especially whm whom has shared more than enough of their skills with us asts/schs over the years. Healers need more uniqueness, not more homogenization than what we got.

Frankly instead of trying to find stuff to spend seals on I would rather see them revert back to the SB card system. Otherwise there is nothing unique for one to try to come up with for spending seals. It would either be an ability that does damage, or an ability that does healing. One cannot even try to make it so that you could spend a seal to modify the effect of a card because all the cards are the same and drives home how pointless it was to remove royal road and how weak the card effects and durations are.

**Seraphor** · 07-12-2019 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by LadyKairi

No thank you. Let’s not give the other healers more of what whm has. If you want a nuke like whm, play whm. Ast does need something to spend excess seals on, but let’s think of unique ideas. Not taking unique skills from other jobs, especially whm whom has shared more than enough of their skills with us asts/schs over the years. Healers need more uniqueness, not more homogenization than what we got.

Besides, ASTs cards are it's additional dps.
Divination would be the equivalent of something like Afflatus Misery.

**geekgirl101** · 07-12-2019 10:47 AM

They dumbed AST so much it's now boring.

Thread: Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

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