Why are people calling it “casualbringers” now?

[SargentToughie]

I'm of the opinion that the changes to tanking actually make them less casual than they are right now. With this change, bad tanks can't just sit in tank stance and mash their enmity combo anymore, sputtering along through dungeons thinking they're doing a serviceable job while ignoring 80% of their kit.

Now, as the slide said, tank success depends on player skill. Good tanks will be rewarded and recognized, bad tanks that squeaked by in the past will not. It's actually enough to motivate me to drop everything to go back to tanking in ShB, that and gunbreaker looks rad!

[Physic]

This is wrong.
The role type questlines are the retelling of the WoD and not the job quests.
The Job Qest will be condensed into a single quest at level 80 instead of spreading the story over multiple quests at different levels.

Also wrong.
The DoH/Dol system is a kind of costum deliveries and has nothing to do with the job/class quests.

Because most role actions were niche for specific situations ore just plain stupid, so they reduced them to the "needed" amount.
(Tanks: 7; Healers: 6; Meele: 6; physical Ranged: 6; magical Ranged: 4)

Skills that were so situational and mostly unused and avoided.

So yes, in the one or the other way this things were requested.
1)+2) Not directly requested but: Less divided story of job quests with aditional content for the lore and background with the side effect of potential additional leveling content is always a good change.
3) It was often requested to rework the role actions so "usless" or "extremly situational" skills would get purged or reworked.
4) It was more a silent request by neglecting the enmity skills and avoiding tank stances as much as possible and so they just followed the current highlevel gameplay and made the tank role more aproachable.

Sources:
- PLL 51, "Role Quests" and "Removal of Role Actions customization"
- common sense

uhh.

from what he said, enmity is going to be basically automatic now, not that it was rocket science before, but now you have a lot less tools to manage it. He also says the point of this is to allow them to dps, and that most of the difference between players will be their skills at their dps. Which if true, means tanking will be even easier. And yes, the current goal, of a high end tank was to do as much dps as possible, while generating enough hate to hold aggro, however, they didnt enhance/evolve that gameplay, they simplified it. Now the goal is to do as much dps as possible, maintaining hate appears to be automatic.

heres the thing about situational skills, they are situational. What makes them interesting is the fact that you only use them when the situation demands it. Basically, the fact they were rarely used is more about fairly weak, non varied enemy encounters, and combat design.

it is theoretically possible they cut these options to make the ones we have left require more interesting execution, but nothing they said seems to suggest that, at this point.

I'm of the opinion that the changes to tanking actually make them less casual than they are right now. With this change, bad tanks can't just sit in tank stance and mash their enmity combo anymore, sputtering along through dungeons thinking they're doing a serviceable job while ignoring 80% of their kit.

Now, as the slide said, tank success depends on player skill. Good tanks will be rewarded and recognized, bad tanks that squeaked by in the past will not. It's actually enough to motivate me to drop everything to go back to tanking in ShB, that and gunbreaker looks rad!

what good tanks? tanking will be automatic now. Good tanks will be doing tighter dps rotations? Is that supposed to be how tanks show thier skills? keep in mind tanks will likely still be a low dps job, therefore the difference between a good and bad tank will be minimal


I'm hoping a lot was glossed over, but really it seems like they are solving problems through homegenization and simplification.

[Brownondorf]

i was a monk main in heavensward and i'm a samurai main in stormblood so i know what it feels to not be meta and be restricted from some PF because "no utility job" so i'm 100% happy of what the balance team is doing.

- getting rid of synergies = good, no more "we need a DRG because we have a bard/mch" or ninja mandatory all the time because of trick attack...
- no more button bloat
- new tank stance is a nice change
- more homogeneous jobs

i'm all for it!

[Mistyregions]

This is my take, button bloat gone? Good, making things simpler? Depends on how simple. I dont want all classes the same except the name of the skills and the order you push them in. If they do make things easier rotation wise and don't allow for custom rotations then I want the mechanics in content to be more complex. Ethier the skill rotation is engaging and the content whatever, or the skill rotation is whatever and the content is engaging.

[MrKimper]

And instead tanks will now be in "DPS stance" guaranteed 100% of the time, since there is no dmg penalty on the stance anymore and the extra defense is moved to a trait.
Tank stance will be nothing more than an enmity toggle now.

Which imo is how it should be, stance dancing was never really a thing to begin with in 4.0 if you were geared up enough, FF XIV tanking is all about cool down mitigation, the extra mitigation from tank stance is really unnecessary outside of maybe dungeon pulls. Personally I think it's better to focus on tanks fighting for enmity and let their rotations become more complex. Now without enmity combos damage could theoretically dictate just how much enmity you're generating during a fight.

[SargentToughie]

what good tanks? tanking will be automatic now. Good tanks will be doing tighter dps rotations? Is that supposed to be how tanks show thier skills? keep in mind tanks will likely still be a low dps job, therefore the difference between a good and bad tank will be minimal

What, and tanking wasn't automatic before? It has been since the drop of the expansion, as long as your off-tank knows where the Shirk button is. That, and you don't know the exact numbers. As long as we maintain the ability to do anywhere around the field of about 50 to 75% of an actual DPS job, I'll be happy.

[Physic]

i was a monk main in heavensward and i'm a samurai main in stormblood so i know what it feels to not be meta and be restricted from some PF because "no utility job" so i'm 100% happy of what the balance team is doing.

- getting rid of synergies = good, no more "we need a DRG because we have a bard/mch" or ninja mandatory all the time because of trick attack...
- no more button bloat
- new tank stance is a nice change
- more homogeneous jobs

i'm all for it!

well, in truth the best way to balance jobs is make them all have the same capabilities, but if you picked a job, not just because it was a skin, but because of its diffefent strengths and weaknesses you might be annoyed.

Oh well, i hope there will be more limited jobs, because regular jobs seem to be giving up a lot, just so they can operate in high end groups.

[Dyvid]

It was already confirmed that Repertoire is now a flat rate and does not rely on critical ticks from DoTs. This may simplify IJ optimization, but I think it's also their answer to BRD's power creep because they can't figure out how to not make Crit the best-scaling substat.

Well since you main BRD and we are talking about making things simpler, was extending the DoTs in 4.0 good or bad in you opinion? While I'm still leveling BRD, I notice the extension is helpful because it lets me focus more on keeping straight shot buff up, songs up, and focus on my shot weaving. Now you say Repertoire is confirmed as a flat rate, okay but a good BRD is still going to need to make sure your DoTs are up, you just won't be penalized as heavy if you miss it during on rotation. Now if they remove DoTs all together that would simplifying the job. Trust me, I don't agree with everything SE has said like removing Crit+ party buff from songs and will be the first one at launch asking for them to add another buff to replace it. The point I'm trying to stress is patience and wait until the 29 for first hand experience and then launch so we can actually see how it pans out.

[Physic]

What, and tanking wasn't automatic before? It has been since the drop of the expansion, as long as your off-tank knows where the Shirk button is. That, and you don't know the exact numbers. As long as we maintain the ability to do anywhere around the field of about 50 to 75% of an actual DPS job, I'll be happy.

it definitely was pretty easy, but now its even moreso. I get it, if tanking is complex, you have more failure and headaches in groups, but i think people pick tanks because they want to focus on mitigation and controlling the enemy, instead of dps, no?

For that type of player, is doing more dps that entertaining? even if it is, is there enough feedback on dps for a tank to be satisfied by seeing dps go up? is doing 15% more dps entertaining, when your dps contribution is minimal?

perhaps they will increase tank dps, but then, how is tanking a different playstyle than dps? We have to see more information of course, but what he showed, and the type of things he said are worrisome

[Legion88]

uhh.

from what he said, enmity is going to be basically automatic now, not that it was rocket science before, but now you have a lot less tools to manage it. He also says the point of this is to allow them to dps, and that most of the difference between players will be their skills at their dps. Which if true, means tanking will be even easier. And yes, the current goal, of a high end tank was to do as much dps as possible, while generating enough hate to hold aggro, however, they didnt enhance/evolve that gameplay, they simplified it. Now the goal is to do as much dps as possible, maintaining hate appears to be automatic.

You sound like tanking is all about enmity and this narrow point of view is narrow.
You neglect positioning of mobs, managing defensive cooldowns, party support and damage.
So my view of tanking includes 5 points, who will be reduced to 4 by making enmity "automatic" or a really low focus point.
I'm more excited about how much they emphasize the other aspects of my view on tanking instead of whining about a minor part reduced to background noise that was more of a hindrance or nuisance then an interesting part of the jobs gameplay.