Musings on DNC and meta comps in ShB

[silentwindfr]

Ah. So just hook onto the monk or ninja.

samurai too, since they are the third fastest in terms of attack speed. plus give saber dance to a samurai and you will get insane dps.

[Siccoroa]

Heads up, Bards don't crit stack anymore.

Do you have source for that? I haven't seen anything saying that.

[silentwindfr]

Slight correction—BLM and SAM have high damage if they’re played properly. However, it’s fairly common to find players that do not play either of these jobs properly. Even still, players that don’t have access to third-party tools will still feed jobs they think are dealing high damage despite them being below the tanks in actuality.

That’s the point Lumadurin was making: there’s no way to actually know who is dealing what kind of damage in order to maximize a buff without turning to a tool that explicitly tells you. Just because a person is a BLM or a SAM doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re dealing the most damage and can maximize the buff’s potential.

going with: "yes but some people are bad with this jobs and jobs" work for every jobs around. we talk of synergie in terms of bonus get from by example saber dance. give +30% of critical and DH to the two potential higher dps is not something you can under estimate. however, i feel that the best choice for dance partner will be monk, ninja, sam. in this order, mostly because the ressource gain is based on weapon skill, it's seems. and they are the three fastest job around in terms of attack speed.

however, it will depend of the player skill, like always. a good synergie means nothing if the player are bad.... but it don't change the fact that the best possible will be this three. even if every dps will be good, but if you have one of this three it will be safer to expect to get a maximum dps from this partnership.

Do you have source for that? I haven't seen anything saying that.

was said while the live letter if i'm right.

[ForteNightshade]

going with: "yes but some people are bad with this jobs and jobs" work for every jobs around. we talk of synergie in terms of bonus get from by example saber dance. give +30% of critical and DH to the two potential higher dps is not something you can under estimate. however, i feel that the best choice for dance partner will be monk, ninja, sam. in this order, mostly because the ressource gain is based on weapon skill, it's seems. and they are the three fastest job around in terms of attack speed.

however, it will depend of the player skill, like always. a good synergie means nothing if the player are bad.... but it don't change the fact that the best possible will be this three. even if every dps will be good, but if you have one of this three it will be safer to expect to get a maximum dps from this partnership.

Except the whole point being made is you can only be aware of who's doing high damage by utilizing a third party program—one the devs don't want to actively promote or implement themselves. Even if we assume they are good, you want to use a buff during burst windows not just slap it on a Samurai and hope for the best. This also necessitates a parser at least for those theorycrafting how to optimize each job. Simply put, DNC keeps circling back to a job dependent on knowledge the game doesn't provide. Which is a tad silly.

Actually, if we applied DNC's buff to the current crop of jobs. BRD would be your runaway pick due to Crit scaling. This alone emphasises why you cannot just assume SAM/BLM are the best targets.

[dragoelete]

who knows they might decide to add some sort of watered down version of a parser where its just a line graph without numbers or something just for this kind of thing.

[RukiaFae]

Dancer looks like it will have high support and such so will it ever take the spot of Bard or Ninja or it is the case that you can take Dancer as an alternative? Also i am anxious to know what area it falls in for gear and such.
But even if dps is the lowest i plan on levelling it first because i have wanted dancer for a long time.

It was datamined from the benchmark to share gear with Bard and mch I believe.

[Kalise]

So, it's seeming that DNC actively goes against some of the designs that the devs have for the game.

Such as, enticing you to use a Parser so you know which person is doing the most DPS so would make the most of your buffs. While Parsers are not endorsed by SE nor is any form of DPS monitoring featured in the game (Even more so is PS4 where parsers cannot be used at all)

In addition, there's already notation that due to their reliance upon weaponskill users for their resource generation, they also have synergy with specifically MNK/NIN/SAM. While the rest of the changes we know about the combat system for 5.0 is that they were explicitly trying to remove job specific synergies.

With the other thing being that they also wanted to tone down rDPS buffs... But with DNC being focused around providing rDPS buffs...

I don't know what to make of this... I'm sure SE have a plan of what they're doing. It just seems kind of odd. Like, they're making all these changes and have made decisions around things and then there's DNC who seems to be the exception to all of them?

I can't help but thing they're going to have a hard time trying to balance DNC properly as a result.

[Maero]

It was datamined from the benchmark to share gear with Bard and mch I believe.

Ok cool, ty.
I know the media are supposed to release more info today also as the embargo will be over

[silentwindfr]

Except the whole point being made is you can only be aware of who's doing high damage by utilizing a third party program—one the devs don't want to actively promote or implement themselves. Even if we assume they are good, you want to use a buff during burst windows not just slap it on a Samurai and hope for the best. This also necessitates a parser at least for those theorycrafting how to optimize each job. Simply put, DNC keeps circling back to a job dependent on knowledge the game doesn't provide. Which is a tad silly.

Actually, if we applied DNC's buff to the current crop of jobs. BRD would be your runaway pick due to Crit scaling. This alone emphasises why you cannot just assume SAM/BLM are the best targets.

even without third party tool you have a way to know who do most damage is called boss dummy near rahgr.... you can know by seeing the difference in timer for finish one. plus you don't need to do a lot of math for know which jobs have more damage potential.... plus the trouble with the dnc dance partner is it give ressource from the action of the partner, then technically a fast hitting job will be better. but in the end from what i did found out only one buff, one heal and one attack are from the dance. if the leak are true the attack is insane...

same from the leak the buff have a cd of 2 minutes... can be changed but is not something that will happend often, means you will choose one partner that have a decent dps and a fast hitting capacity for give a edge to the dancer more than the buff for the partner.

finally we know from the way the jobs are created that technically the two massive dps potential is the sam and blm, mostly because it's them role... but it don't means that other dps can't be dance partner, we are talking of potential, without test is impossible to know and even if the theory say something, if the skill of the player involved is not on par with the theory it will have not the result expected.

[Yhisa]

tbh... nothing was said that you could even swap partner mid combat... for all we know we may only be able to link with one play before the fight... similar to ast sects... u must choose before the fight and roll with it

Dnc looks fun to play and the step system is great... in terms of how it applies buffs is awsome... BUT people who are after "speed kills" most likely will not take a dnc as majority of the time speed runner abuse mechanics to deal insane amount of dps in short openings

1) will dancer be viable
HELL YES!!

2) will it be able to do all content
HELL YES!!

3)will it be able to clear savage
HELL YES!!

4)will it be valuable for speed kills
no idea because people not checked for broken buff stacking (stupid crit meta in sb brd/drg/sch) (damage stacking meta ast/nin/mch)

Meta requirements
Drg/brd/nin/mch/ast/sch (dmg/crit stacking)