Hairstyle Concerns for The New Races

[zeylos]

Then by this logic we should just go tell the male viera and female Hrothgar people that they'll never get those genders. Yoshida didn't even say those were on the table right now, but something that he has confirmed that they will work on is suddenly not plausible? Strange logic there.

Read their post twice.
They arent't saying you won't get new faces, just that we are unsure, and we don't know when you'll get them, just as we are unsure about if we'll get femhrot and maleviera, and even though it's quite likely, we have no idea when. It could be a surprise release on 5.1 or they could release it as a selling point of 13.0, and there's obviously a chance that they simply won't release them

[Alleo]

Then by this logic we should just go tell the male viera and female Hrothgar people that they'll never get those genders. Yoshida didn't even say those were on the table right now, but something that he has confirmed that they will work on is suddenly not plausible? Strange logic there.

I am saying that just because he is telling us that we might get more does not mean that we will get it soon or that we get many of that. Its just simply a small promise but nothing of detail behind it. I am not saying that we dont get any at all...

The reason why people are still posting about male Viera and female Hrothgar is because he simply did not promise us anything, just that they will look into this. Thus people want to keep it on their radar to show their want for it.

No, as a hrothgar your race would have 16 hair styles that are divided up between different faces.

You may have a problem with that but that doesn't change the number.


Ok, so why bother talking about anything if you don't trust the man behind the game? If we can't agree to take what he says at face value then what's the point? Do you also assume he's lying about Viera and they will spend all of shb with what they have now?

Or do you think CC for new races that he claims the team is ready to do rn is a thing far more important than an egi glam?

Like, what benefit is there to saying he could be lying about the good news we've gotten from him?

Its just simply bad in my opinion to say that they have the same options as other races because its not true. You can try and spin it into something positive but its not. Lets view it like that: You want to create one new character: If you choose a female Viera you can choose the face you want and then later choose from 8 unique hairstyles or 8 similiar ones. If you go and create a Hrothgar and choose one face you have one hairstyle for it and one variation for that. There is simply no way to have a face and choose the style you like, you are stuck with it. They are restricted in the hair department when other races are not.

I am not saying that he is lying about everything or that we should never trust his words. But its the sad truth that there has been stuff in the past that we never got even when they talked about it, or that were changed (like the housing timer part), so I just pointed out that him saying something does not mean it will happen like we want. Thats just how business work. He might be passionate about this project but he is still the face of a company and we do know that they are not always completely truthful to us or tell us things that we want to hear so that people might be less angry.

In this case he simply said that we will get more later. He never says how many and when. So if we only get one new mane at the end of the next expansion then he is still true to his words, but I am not sure if people would truly be happy about this. That is just the whole point of that post. That we simply cant say if they get much.

About the manes: He wanted them to have a certain look. But how much can you do keep it that way? How many manes will we get that thanks to that restriction will look too similiar?

[Fredco191]

Honestly. I think they should have at the very least unlocked hairstyles from faces. I wouldn’t mind the limited hair choices as much if that were the case.

[reivaxe]

I am saying that just because he is telling us that we might get more does not mean that we will get it soon or that we get many of that. Its just simply a small promise but nothing of detail behind it. I am not saying that we dont get any at all...

The reason why people are still posting about male Viera and female Hrothgar is because he simply did not promise us anything, just that they will look into this. Thus people want to keep it on their radar to show their want for it.

He said this ...

"We will be introducing more hair styles for Hrothgar, but those will be to strengthen the image or the roll playing of a “beast” so those will be only for Hrothgar. Please look at it as a race that is different from the existing ones from the base concept.

Q: That means there will be new face patterns as well…?

Yoshida: “We probably have to do that” so we are prepared, but I told our team that we will release 5.0 first so that will come at some time in the future *laugh*

Q: *laugh* So we can expect new patterns at some point after the release of “Shadowbringers”?

Yoshida: Yes. To phrase it differently, we had to make up our minds on that in order to achieve what we wanted to with the Hrothgar "

This is not a "maybe". This is not like Male Viera or female Hrothgar where he basically said "MAYBE if we can overcome the many hurdles that stop us from doing it then perhaps you will see them in some manner" aka the most polite way of saying No without saying No imo.

No ... this is him saying "Yes, this is something we will do after we get ShB released. In order to get them out how we wanted we had to decide to do it this way"

That is good news.

"But we don't know WHEN or how many!"

So? I should be upset that they didn't detail out their planned progress on these additions to us beyond "Sometime after 5.0 releases"? For a game with many planned updates that updates often?

Its just simply bad in my opinion to say that they have the same options as other races because its not true.

LMAO, I have legit been saying that they have DIFFERENT options than other races. Like Yoshi said, they should be considered different from any other race on the very base concept. They can be given 32 hair styles, but by the very nature of how they work that could be spread out between the 4 we have or between 8 brand new heads and you still simply wont be happy with it.

You can try and spin it into something positive but its not.

Yoshi: We will bring out new Hrothgar only hairstyles and faces after the release of 5.0!

Me: This is good! We will be given more options for this unique and awesome race.

You: This is NOT something positive...!

Like ... do you know what spinning is?

Lets view it like that: You want to create one new character: If you choose a female Viera you can choose the face you want and then later choose from 8 unique hairstyles or 8 similiar ones. If you go and create a Hrothgar and choose one face you have one hairstyle for it and one variation for that. There is simply no way to have a face and choose the style you like, you are stuck with it. They are restricted in the hair department when other races are not.

We have no clue how they will go about allowing you to change hair yet. This is uncharted waters, so perhaps Hrothgar (as part of being a completely different race from the base concept) will have the ability to change faces. Or maybe not and SE will demand money for that. Or maybe you can change between hairs just for that face. We'll find out in a few days.

But yeah, they clearly have a hair restriction as it's linked to faces. They also have the ability to chance the color and pattern of the fur on their bodies (something I'd say is slept on by far too many). They are a completely different race with different and unique options.

I am not saying that he is lying about everything or that we should never trust his words. But its the sad truth that there has been stuff in the past that we never got even when they talked about it, or that were changed (like the housing timer part), so I just pointed out that him saying something does not mean it will happen like we want. Thats just how business work. He might be passionate about this project but he is still the face of a company and we do know that they are not always completely truthful to us or tell us things that we want to hear so that people might be less angry.

Then what is your point?

That we should stay upset for the possibility that he may be lying? That we should be upset that they didn't give us COLD HARD NUMBERS! "How many hairstyles and faces? How long will we have to wait!?"
With this level of cynicism for the man I find it hard to believe you enjoy this game or discussing anything about it.

Seems like you just want people to be as upset as you sooooo you try to point out why this news (from the one interview where he addresses this topic) shouldn't be trusted or give people some relief just so that your feelings or negativity stay valid.

In this case he simply said that we will get more later. He never says how many and when. So if we only get one new mane at the end of the next expansion then he is still true to his words, but I am not sure if people would truly be happy about this. That is just the whole point of that post. That we simply cant say if they get much.

That's just the most weirdly pessimistic (and frankly ... entitled) stance on this.

He doesn't need to tell us all the details, we'll find out when we do. Not knowing all the details is not a good reason to think nothing of his comments on the matter or the worse possible outcome.

Like the comment about Viera. What if "Some" means they get 2 hair styles at the end of the expansion and that's it? You see how strange that sounds?

Sounds like you just really something to complain about to me.

About the manes: He wanted them to have a certain look. But how much can you do keep it that way? How many manes will we get that thanks to that restriction will look too similiar?

There's probably countless ways to make wild looking man hair that work on animal faces. They can even give em dreads ... I do not see your point :/

[Dalmacus]

snip

Then what is your point?

That we should stay upset for the possibility that he may be lying? That we should be upset that they didn't give us COLD HARD NUMBERS! "How many hairstyles and faces? How long will we have to wait!?"
With this level of cynicism for the man I find it hard to believe you enjoy this game or discussing anything about it.

Seems like you just want people to be as upset as you sooooo you try to point out why this news (from the one interview where he addresses this topic) shouldn't be trusted or give people some relief just so that your feelings or negativity stay valid.

That's just the most weirdly pessimistic (and frankly ... entitled) stance on this.

It's not about being upset or entitled but staying skeptical until said stuff is delivered. Why are people feeling this way? It's because this is the first time for FF14 veteran players that the 2 new races have such "unique" design choices to it. No headgear that covers the entire head will be shown and not all of hairstyles will be available and etc.

Veteran players who commented on such and such only has the au'ra as the point of reference to draw from. Au'ra was delivered with everything included so everyone will expect that they do the same for future or upcoming races. I mean come on 6 years of content and hairstyles that people has put in effort to get and now all of the sudden the new races "won't have them"(subject to change) or not at release, how do you think people will react? Personally i will adopt the wait and see then complain stance.

[reivaxe]

It's not about being upset or entitled but staying skeptical until said stuff is delivered. Why are people feeling this way? It's because this is the first time for FF14 veteran players that the 2 new races have such "unique" design choices to it. No headgear that covers the entire head will be shown and not all of hairstyles will be available and etc..

There's a difference between skepticism and cynicism.

Here, lets put this in context ...

Yoshi has been nothing but transparent with the development of these 2 races after reveal. Because of him we know that both races were only able to reach a presentable state shortly before their reveals (explains why all the Viera had face 1 and why the Hrothgar had the crappy lighting and filters to cover up the poor texture work at that stage). We know why they were added , we know his thoughts on bringing in yet another handsome race with different ears and we know why they decided to release 1 gender for each race. He's painted a very clear picture of what lead to this.

We were told that they wouldn't be able to show ANY head gear unless it was like the mascot heads where it completely replaces the head and that the team would work on adding head gear post release of 5.0. He then shares with us that behind his back and on their free time the devs worked on making 400-500 head gears show on the new races heads even though they had planned to work on this later. They do the media tour where for some reason no youtube "influencer" bothered to ask about this topic but after releasing the benchmark and being asked about it he says these things that are in no way vague. That kinda invalidates skepticism ... we KNOW for a fact he said this as we have this information from an interview. There's nothing to speculate about on that front.

So he has given us no reason to think he isn't being truthful about this information about the new races.

This is where I see things going into cynicism.
And by that I mean "An inclination to question whether something will happen or whether it is worthwhile; pessimism.".

Saying "You don't know, they could just release 1 hair style at the end of the Expansion. This isn't good news" is cynicism. It's taking what we do know (Yoshi saying that they will release more hairstyles and faces for Hrothgar after 5.0 release) disregarding things he said (that the team is prepared for it rn) and taking it to the worst case scenario to discredit the news.

Then you have people also saying things like "Don't take those words as a promise that any added styles will be radically different to the existing ones. It may simply be different combinations of the existing faces and manes" which is the exact opposite of what he said ... this is some kinda nonsense as it assumes he doesn't know the difference between "new hairstyles" and "undoing the decision I made to tie hairs to faces so that I can reuse current hair styles instead of just making new ones".

Cynicism is only used to breed a pessimistic PoV on something to continue a negative narrative or feed negativity. Be it clear or not that negativity will be directed to the Hrothgar in the end.
If you try to push or hold on to the narrative that Hrothgar have bad CC by disregarding any positive news on that front AND ignoring any of the cool and unique CC they do have well also showing no worry for what was said about Viera then .... you're not pushing for support of expanding their CC. Your negativity will just end up pushing a narrative that they are bad/ poorly done/ a waste to people who don't bother to put thought into things.

Like how Meoni gave his opinion on the Races in a video were he shows a clear lack of understanding the basics of the CC to paint Hrothgar in a poor light ("Why can't I use this tattoo option on this other face?" maybe if you didn't play a clean faced catgirl you'd know any race with Tattoos has said tattoos locked to each face). He didn't like it and used his feelings to push a negative take on the race ("they shoulda gone with Male Viera..") which I've seen ripple through out his comment section. He's still doing it. He reported on this news with the assumption that Hrothgar players would be upset to hear ... that their race of choice is gonna get MORE faces and hairstyles instead of getting common ones shared by all. The general take on reddit about this was a sigh of relief that we're getting more and a grunt of discomfort with the conformation that Viera will only get "some" of the shared hairs cause who knows which those will be or how many that is?


Here's an Idea ... lets do a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT!

Certain people here are HOPEFUL for male VIERA (Instagram peeps will get that lol) and are clearly disappointed at the lack of a gender options for the Viera, a race only shown to as women in other games who are shockingly only shown as women in this game.

Lets say Yoshi says this about it tomorrow ...
"Yoshi: In order to get ShB released in the state we wanted to we had to do things this way. But YES, we will be releasing Male Viera and Female Hrothgar after the ShB expansion is completed. Our teams are prepared to take this on "

Would you take this as good news? He said in no uncertain words that this will happen and they're ready to do it ... do you trust him on this?

Or do you say "You don't know, for all we know they're gonna release them on the LAST patch of the LAST expansion before the game is shut down and not allow them to wear more than half the male gear at the time"?

Or do you say " Oooh Poppycock, they could just be putting bunny ears on a Elezen and cat ears on a Femroe, you don't know."

Or do you act like he doesn't know what goes into different genders and say "You can't take his words as a promise. He could just take the tits off of Viera and slap some tits onto the Hrothgar males and say they're now the other genders"?

This would clearly be said to spread or promote negativity about the situation regardless of the news by using any made up worst case scenario to down play said news.
It's not constructive nor productive which is why I ask "whats the point of discussing this if this is what you think?". Cause the only goal I see would be to feed into outrage culture, were you have to assume the worst to get your blood going regardless of the logic behind it.

It opens up the door for someone to say that if hrothgar can sculpt their face again, even if they’re not charging their hair, then others not playing hrothgar will want to too. Just think how many requests to change eye color with the aesthetician exist. In theory, even if eye color isn’t an option, you’d have to let them change noses, jawlines, face shape, etc using him if they’re going to be able to change their hair. Effectively hrothgar players will limited in one regard, may have benefits other players do not have in another regard.

And if they can make all those changes, you can bet that there will be many people who demand that those same face sculpting options be unlocked for all races if they’re unlocked for one.

You wouldn't have to assume that the Hrothgar can fully rearrange their face to allow face changing.

They're set up in a way that every face feature option is the same for each face. The narrow mean looking eyes are eye 3 on all of them. The smallest nose is the same number on all of them. So if you make a mean looking, small nose big chin no fangs having Hrothgar no matter what face you swap to you're gonna get that face's version of those features. That way if you really want to change the details you gotta buy a potion.

Or maybe they do let you basically change everything but the tall/ voice settings. We'll find out.

And it really doesn't matter if some people think it's not fair if that's how SE does it, they are supposed to be seen as a completely different race from others on the very base concept level. Them not having freedom to mix and match hairs with faces AND not having access to any of the non-hrothgar hairs in this game puts them in a situation where either SE demands Hrothgar players pay $10 to change their hair or they're given some freedoms others don't have to make up for it. Maybe fur patterns is the hidden key to this and we get like 50+ patterns to make up for being stuck with our unchanging hair unless we pay $10 to change it?

[Alleo]

So? I should be upset that they didn't detail out their planned progress on these additions to us beyond "Sometime after 5.0 releases"? For a game with many planned updates that updates often?

No you dont have to be upset but others can be. And again he outright once said that we will never get a housing timer (said that in a liveletter on top of that!) and yet months later we had one. He said that we will get egis of Shiva and other primals and yet we never got them. They might have plans but those can change. And as my post even stated: We simply dont even know when and how many we will get. And this is my biggest problem. It does of course not have to be your problem and you can be fine with it. And I am just not fine with this restriction anyway so no I am not spinning it because I simply dont like the idea itself and just pointed out that words dont mean anything right now.

I also can play games without having to 100% like or trust the dev behind it. I respect him for the work he has done after 1.0 but that does not mean that I fully trust what he is saying and seeing how there has been changes in the past I will remain skeptic. Call me whatever you want but for me this limitation of the first beast race is just bad. And the hints of something coming in the future does not change that, since we barely have any numbers on this. Again it could be 10 styles it could be one. But its still a limitation.

I am also not a fan of the restriction for Viera but they at least have the hairstyle category.

Edit: I even went back to my first post that you answered: I never in there said that others cant be happy, I said that its a disappointing thing for me. I also wrote that I am afraid that Hrothgars will be stuck with the limited styles for a longer time. And then I wrote that we got less hairstyles with patches in the expansion (which is a fact) and thus I kinda doubt that they will get many or that we might even lose some for the other races. You then answered that this is not so bad because he promised us more styles and that they still have enough, even though they are fixed to faces thus way less styles per face.

[reivaxe]

I'm honestly really puzzled by people who are trying to spin the hrothgar head customisation state into something positive..

I'm on my phone so sorry if I double post but I got a lol down time so Imma speak.

No, no ones spining the situation as a good thing. If course it's more preferred to have a system were we pick our hair between faces like any other race. But they made it clear that they are making this a wholey unique, different race with different rules and ways to customize them. I accept this, they have things other races don't and it goes the other way around.

Now, this NEWS is a net positive though. A flat out confirmation that yes, they plan to make more hrothgar hair and faces post release? How is this not a good thing? No spin needed.

"But what if I want this hair or face feature on that face?! This is limitation!"

This is ff14 ... The cc is hella limiting for everyone. I play Femroe. The face I use doesn't have the cool scar I like and the option it does have is one I don't like much. These are just things I've learned to accept about this game.

I know we live in an age of outrage culture with today's youth but it's not all doom.

The choice was made to do this with their hair but what they gave em is great and allows for some amazing things no race has had before.

1. So as a Hrothgar I can chose the face I want and then choose from the 16 manes?

No, as a hrothgar your race would have 16 hair styles that are divided up between different faces.

You may have a problem with that but that doesn't change the number.

2. Yoshida also said that we would get certain egis before the expansion and we never got them

Ok, so why bother talking about anything if you don't trust the man behind the game? If we can't agree to take what he says at face value then what's the point? Do you also assume he's lying about Viera and they will spend all of shb with what they have now?

Or do you think CC for new races that he claims the team is ready to do rn is a thing far more important than an egi glam?

Like, what benefit is there to saying he could be lying about the good news we've gotten from him?

3. And how many can they give us that will still look like manes?

What does this even mean? Yoshi says they're getting hrothgar only hairstyles that are meant to push the role of a beast ... Many of their current hairs don't look like "manes" in the traditional sense but get that across.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

snip

Honestly, it feels like people are just trying to hate on Hrothgar lately because they didn't get what they wanted. I've seen several posts saying they should have not done Hrothgar and they should have just done viera, which I don't understand seeing as how this unlocks several unique aspects to character customization now. I'm willing to believe in Yoshi P and his team. They haven't let me down yet!