The Nothing Better To Do But Speculate Thread - Tanks

[DRKoftheAzure]

With the new provoke now giving you and aggro lead instead of just equal, you have the solution to that problem.

If that ends up being true when embargo lifts then they have taken the skill out of tanking and they officially have made tanks just DPS with lots of health... no aggro combos to alternate between, tank stance practically gives no real benefits, and now Provoke basically replacing aggro combos...

[FallenWings]

If that ends up being true when embargo lifts then they have taken the skill out of tanking and they officially have made tanks just DPS with lots of health... no aggro combos to alternate between, tank stance practically gives no real benefits, and now Provoke basically replacing aggro combos...

I didn't know pressing a combo at the start of the fight once per fight was high skill. Possibly the source of the majority of all our enmity output without a stifling penalty and abhorrent shift in gameplay has no practical benefit? GG tanks dead role.



/s

[Jandor]

As it stands now enmity may as well not exist anymore, just have enemies target the blue party member by default.

[Liam_Harper]

We'll have to see, with the changes to stances and enmity just having the enmity stance on and doing the tank's damage rotation may well be enough to keep ahead of dps.

It depends on how high the Emnity multiplier is. If it's merely 2-3 times the emnity I can definitely picture situations where undergeared, poorly performing tanks do less than 33-50% of the damage of a skilled, geared SAM or BLM and aggro is ripped fairly early, the tank vokes and aggro is ripped again before the cd is up.

If it's more than 4 times, then we end up like WoW where emnity simply isn't a factor and things just glue to the main tank.

I didn't know pressing a combo at the start of the fight once per fight was high skill.

Then maybe the fact we don't need to use emnity combos should have been looked at rather than deleting it entirely? I'm not a fan of losing tools and gaining nothing new in return. But we can't be certain of that, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Jollyy5]

I'm thinking the thought process behind removing enmity combos and stance dancing was because at higher level raiding, those are ideally never used anyway.

WAR goes in and pulls the boss in Defiance + Unchained, pops Equilibrium and switches to Deliverance and ideally never switches back to Defiance or use an enmity combo, so I guess they figured they might as well just remove all that to greatly alleviate button bloat while still having room for new skills.

It lowers the skill floor, making things easier for new tanks, while barely changing anything for high level players.

Win/win.

[DRKoftheAzure]

I'm thinking the thought process behind removing enmity combos and stance dancing was because at higher level raiding, those are ideally never used anyway.

WAR goes in and pulls the boss in Defiance + Unchained, pops Equilibrium and switches to Deliverance and ideally never switches back to Defiance or use an enmity combo, so I guess they figured they might as well just remove all that to greatly alleviate button bloat while still having room for new skills.

It lowers the skill floor, making things easier for new tanks, while barely changing anything for high level players.

Win/win.

Using WAR as the example is basically no contest for other tanks, because WAR just wins by default... God Kefka required tank stance and usage of aggro combo to make him stay glued to the tank otherwise he would take out the healer(s) due to how squishy they are and Heartless Angel, and if you had NIN then it wasn't as big of an issue, but because enrage timers exist just to please the people who use parsers and grieve those who don't even have access to that kind of knowledge...

I do believe that tank balance is important but just balancing fights around enrage timers is bad way to do it if all you need is 1 tank, 1 healer, and 6 DPS which is basically most savage mode and EX fights... If a fight is designed around tank swapping but also has an enrage timer then that is probably bad design from a players point of view but I already know I'm in the minority so no one cares about that unless DPS is involved... They could design fights around bosses just being outright immune to Provoke like world bosses but then people with parsers will complain about their DPS... Not whole lot of fights are designed with 1 specific scenario in mind that isn't "group up and hit the boss until it dies before enrage happens" because they try to combine most those ideas into 1 fight and that's where the imbalance comes from...

They just need to design fights around at least 1 or 2 scenarios over jamming all of these scenarios into 1 scenario that makes everyone avoid those encounters no matter how good the carrot on the stick is... It's not worth making everyone miserable just because someone asked for tanking, healing, and DPSing easier... make them earn that skill...