watch a guide, you are not gonna die

[Seraphor]

Again, if you're learning, then you're not going to join a clear party.
Those who do that, fair game.

Stop conflating first times and clear/farms.
Your optimisation, and all those guides, are for the latter.

If you're using DF, it's casual content. Which as you've just said, doesn't matter.
If you're learning, you join a learning party, which hopefully you'll never join because you've already learned all you need to learn right?

So what is the issue? Are you just being abrasive for the sake of it? Are you just trying to swing your dick around?

[ChaoticCrimson]

For my two gil, I'll just say the only content where a guide is highly recommended to peruse before starting said content is typically Ex and Savage fights, and possibly the 24-man raids from HW onward. While helpful for easy content like dungeons and NM trials, guides are hardly necessary to get through successfully. In most cases it might take maybe sixty seconds to explain mechanics for this content, if that. That's hardly an inconvenience. If you think it's an imposition to help your fellow sprouts and/or returners with something as simple as a regular dungeon, then I don't think this is the kind of game for you.

[Neri]

A third point: In JP, it's EXPECTED that you have done some research, before joining an encounter in the Duty Finder. Party Finder is used to learn fights. So... if you join a DF run, and suck because you didn't try to learn beforehand, you'll probably just get blacklisted.

Savage raid and extreme trial, yes, it is as you said. The rest though, they don't really care, including latest 24-man raid.

[Gallus]

Your reasoning applies to extreme primals and savage content. Getting mad over someone not watching a guide in a 4 man dungeon in a DF party feels wrong.

[SenorPatty]

This discussion reminds me of a particular Orbonne run I had with Cid. I was in Alliance C with only one new person. Alliance A & B were nearly all new.

First try, wipe. We had only explained meteors and duskblade prior.

Second try, wipe. This time, I personally type out Cid stances. Mind you, this was a bit difficult to explain as I had to describe visuals. So I had to be like "If you see Cid winding his arms back, get away from him" and so on and so forth. Also explained tethers

Third try, wipe. This time, I added pretty much every single thing Cid did. And when I mean everything, I mean, E V E R Y T H I N G. It might have been the second time since I've played this game (the first being alphascape middy) since I had to explain everything. We managed to succeed on our fifth try. Yeah that's right, we wiped one more additional time, even with two other people doing callouts.

Now I know this is like, an outlier to usual runs but, sometimes I do wonder if I would've been in the wrong to tell everyone to take a five minute break and let the newbies watch/read a guide. Idk how many woul'dve agreed to that, never mind if the newbies would've actually taken up the offer to do so. Nonetheless, this makes me think that, when it comes to particular fights with a lot of mechs that will usually kill/wipe groups, is it really so bad to suggest to someone to go read a guide that would do a far, FAR better job of explaining mechs than someone who now has to type out everything?

EDIT: I should mention that prior to Cid, everything was slow as hell. First boss analysis was done four times. Second boss was also a wipe zone--and yes, we explained mechs before and after. I remember people bailing in droves from all alliances (had two from mine who just didn't want to deal with the situation).

I mean, I do agree that DF dungeons don't need much explaining but raids, even the normal ones...if I had to give realistic advice to any new person, I would tell them to read a guide beforehand. Don't do it for the group, do it for themselves.

[Tlachtga]

You're free to jump into old content blind. Just don't get mad when you die to avoidable mechanics that you should know how to resolve and you have to wait 50+ seconds for my swiftcast to come off cd.

This is just another example of the selfish casual part of the community; they only care about their experience, and not the 3/7 others who have to carry their carcasses across the finish line.

[enthauptet]

I honestly think this could be a issue due to a generation gap of gamers, I don't really want to use the term lazy. I've been playing MMO's and online games since 2004 and anytime I either had a question because I didn't know something or I was about to jump into any form of group content I would always either google and find my answer within minutes and/or watch a video guide to at least familiarize myself with what i was getting into. Over the years I would see countless people ask in-game the easiest questions over and over and in the time it took someone to respond to them they could have easily found the answer they were looking for themselves. This isn't in anyway a slight towards people with that mentality, I guess It's a lack of understanding it.

I'm pretty sure you describe a new type of player which any older gamer would say is being lazy. That is the type of person that used to buy strategy guide or walk-through instead of figuring things out for themselves. Most people were against those since it made the experience less fulfilling. It is pretty funny people are arguing against this now.

[Hezzlocks]

Honestly, the only content you should really be worried about looking up is Savage/Extreme trials and raids. The vast majority of the dungeon and regular/Hard trials fights you can pretty easily pick up on the fly just by looking around or watching others. Very rarely do they have a mechanic or attack that will one-shot you if you mess up unless you have very low gear or, yknow, you don't see that big gaping death pit that the boss is obviously going to try to push you in at some point.

Even when a fight DOES have an obscure instant death mechanic, like that boss in Sunken Temple with Doom, you can typically analyze the fight and guess at what went wrong. First time I ran that place I died to Doom, didn't get a 2nd attempt as they killed it without me, so I had no idea what happened, but some time later when I did it again I got to thinking. The death happened after a roar halfway through the fight, so I should be alert for that. Look around, whats these three tiles on the floor? They look special, keep an eye on them. Ok here's the roar, oh look one of the tiles is glowing and the others are moving to it, guess I better, too. Well, I didn't die, so I guess I did something right!

The vast majority of the dungeon mechanics can be figured out by being observant like that. Using Rain of Death on the swarm of zombies in Deepcroft Hards first boss wiped us, better not do that again! The others purposefully ran into a rift when those fused Ascians were channeling a big attack, maybe I need to do that too. Everyone used their anti gravity ability to get off the floor, maybe I should too, they must know of an impending earthquake or something!

Extreme/Savage and raids, though? That's where everyone should be looking into the fight, as those fights are far more unforgiving, and where most errors are survivable in regular fights, they usually murder you in these. I mean really, how are you supposed to figure out Good King Moggle Mog Extreme blind, especially in a group of randoms that won't talk?

Possible exception is if you're tanking. Knowing all the tankbusters and how you should position the boss will go a long way. Healers are fine though, my first character a year or two ago was a WHM and healed blind all the way through to the end of the Stormblood main story, and I only felt like I was letting the group down in like two or three dungeons. And DPS? Heh, as long as you can figure out where to stand and what to hit you're gold.

[HyoMinPark]

To be honest, this is why the game's community is full of casuals. That's not necessarily a bad thing. However, you can't have it both ways. You can't be a moron who knows nothing, going into EX or Savage, and expect people to stay in your party for long, because it's clear you don't know anything about the encounter. I give it the three wipe rule: wipe three times, I'm out. It doesn't matter that you THINK you are entitled to my time, being there in the queue with you, you are not.

Even when I was progging UwU, if I'd do something dumb WITH MY STATIC, I'd feel terrible and apologize.

This community has a HUGE problem with taking responsibility for itself. Like, asking you to take TEN MINUTES out of your life, is too much?

I just don't understand how someone can be so selfish, when other people bothered to make sure they knew what was up before queuing. I almost want to say, "How dare you?" for not even bothering. It's the same thing as "oh the mean raiders kicked my from PF because my dps wasn't good enough and I died a lot". Like.... fam, don't be a moron. BASIC COMPETENCE should not be a LUXURY to find in this game. It should be a STANDARD.

But, you know... I'm a mean guy for thinking that way. So instead, skilled players like myself, will just leave your parties, and you'll eventually figure out why you can't clear savage, and why people abandon your parties all the time... maybe, just maybe, taking that ten minutes to watch a guide would have saved you HOURS in partyfinder.

One can hope most will figure that out someday.

Idk which of your posts to quote so I'll pick this one.

I think you missed the huge portion of the thread where players said they were sympathetic to the topic if we were discussing Extremes, Savage, or Ultimate. But the OP is expecting players to watch a guide for everything - including dungeons. That's just unnecessary when someone could name the one or two mechanics a player should watch out for in less time than it would take to perform a search for the appropriate video guide on YouTube. Even in 24-mans this is the case, which very few bosses requiring numerous explanations for mechanics (really, on TGC has the most amount of mechanics that need to be explained - most old 24-mans no longer pose much a threat).

You talk about responsibility, but fail to notice that the OP advocates shirking the responsibility of answering a new player's simple question of "Anything of note I should watch out for?" with "Watch a guide". They also use the excuse of "I'm not a Mentor so I'm not required to teach" - helping new players isn't something exclusive to mentorship, and this community could only stand to benefit if more players helped regardless of if they have a Burger King crown or not. Again, we aren't discussing Savage here. We're talking about baby content.

This isn't UwU. No, players are not required to watch a 10-minute guide on a 20-minute leveling dungeon. Players aren't required to answer a new players questions either - but doing so (with a helpful answer) only proves that one has a sense of decency. Is that such a bad thing?

[Syrus718]

So What is essentially being said here is I should wait for other people to beat new content and make a guide for it before I can try it...?