Healer identity in 5.0

[vexus]

So I know this will be an unpopular opinion, however I am not really mad about not getting a healer (I cant lie I was originally).

However in my opinion, if we want a fourth healer something needs done about the current healers identity not their balance. Currently we have a cornerstone built with the current healers that makes it almost impossible for SE to expand upon. So my question is why don't they do exactly what they are going to do with Tanks? Draw a line in the sand and say these classes are "Off Healers" and these ones are "Main Healers"?

One way I see to do it throughout the 5.0 expansion would be to make some core class changes.

SCH: In my opinion they need to embrace the oGCD healing.
1. Get rid of Succor, Adlo, Sacred Soil, someone else can have shields.
2. Give the SCH heals based around our Atherflow stacks. (Well balance the ones they have)
3. Consolidate Eos / Selene and trim the abilities they get.
4. Give a more engaging DPS rotation.

AST: This healer is in a good spot but if we want to build identity let AST have the shields.
1. Remove the Regen stance.
2. Default the passive buff from Shield stance into all abilities.
3. Rework the card buffs. (Only because TP is going away)

WHM: The WHM has alot of problems I'll admit. However the Regen and power healer route is still its identity.
1. Rework the lily system..... entirely, it doesn't currently make sense and is less then ideal to try and optimize.
2. Regens for days. If they do cast a heal it should more than likely have a regen.

Now I know I didn't mention DPS for AST and WHM, and I am not suggesting removing it. Just that the reworks and the class identities should come from the healing style.
**Also please don't get to hung up on the labels "Main" and "Off" in dungeons they should all still be viable. I mean that's the point of all this right?......Right?

Now for our fourth healer concept.

XXX (I didn't come up with a name sue me): This healer could be the Melee counterpart to SCH, and focus on some semblance of smart heals while it does DPS.
1. A defined engaging DPS rotation.
2. Small "smart" heals backed in to the DPS rotation.
3. Possibly an ability like the pommander from PoTD where if a person dies they are auto rezzed. (This would have to be applied like the SCH excog).
4. Debuffs!

Am I saying this would go over well with the masses? Probably not at first, as people are pretty attached to the current healers. I am also not saying that these changes shouldn't come without nerfs and buffs, I am a SCH main myself but I am not so blind as to not see they are a bit OP right now. What I am saying however, is I think with the current state of healing, and how similar all the healers feel is hindering the ability for SE to create a new class that would be fun and original.

Please let me know what you think, about these concepts, and about the current state of healers. I personally am hoping for big reworks come 5.0!

[Enla]

It seems according to interviews they're going to be breaking down all the healers with 5.0 in an attempt to fix the balance from the ground up, so we'll see how things go going forward. I will say however that if SCH loses it's shields like you suggest I'll be dropping the class. You can take my Adlo from my cold dead fingers. The rest of your suggestions I'm generally fine with however, especially the idea of an engaging DPS rotation for all the classes. Healer DPS is so mindless it almost puts me to sleep.

[CelestaRosa]

Im sorry i strongly disagree. whm has way too many healing abilities watch current game. we do not need.

many of whms spells look powerful on paper but actually they suck. last thing I want too see is list of new healing magic.. honestly do you actually even play a healer at all. cause majority of the time. we are not just tossing out healing . we are throwing out stones. dotting up monsters. making areselfs useful then just standing their casting cure endlessly on same target all the time.

WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE HEALING SPELLS> WHM Is Bloated ok Bloated with Healing Skillls That drasticly needs to be undone. ok so no. strongly disagree

you want to know what imbalience is for whm I tell ya
- we gain are abilities at the wrong levels we dont gain them when we need them
- white mages have no ulitity . are out damaged by astra and scholar . - should never be the case EVER!
- Largress. and Protect - should never been shared with scholar and astra.
- no matter what people gonna pick "Astra" over all other healers. cause they are completely bloated with party buffs and ulitity
- not to mention ripped white mage apart last expension toke all are skills let sch/asta have at them. do
- not mention want to make whm easier !? REAALLY SERIOUSLY!! Its like final fantasy Mystic Quest type retard proofing .. its not needed
- I tired getting nerfed my favorite class. they dont do shit to sch and astra give them great toys. its about time your astra and sch get nerfed too.

- whm needs their time in the sun. its like yoshi-p and fight fantasy programmers have this major hatred towards white-mage leave it alone done enough damage

6 years without new healer. and endless amount nerfs too your favorite class. dont sit tell me that whites mages need more regens . thats cancer

[vexus]

I don't think I really mentioned new or more healing spells. I just never mentioned removing abilities (Except for with SCH) since bloat is already a known issue and they specifically mentioned working on it. I simply suggested they get regens on any heals they do have, this would allow for more DPS uptime and them giving healers a more engaging DPS rotation.

[CelestaRosa]

I don't think I really mentioned new or more healing spells. I just never mentioned removing abilities (Except for with SCH) since bloat is already a known issue and they specifically mentioned working on it. I simply suggested they get regens on any heals they do have, this would allow for more DPS uptime and them giving healers a more engaging DPS rotation.

dont mind me just bit angry at fact that yoshi gonna make whm easier i mean nerf it again. not having 4th healer class

[vexus]

I am not saying I disagree with you either. The ability bloat is real and WHM has had the hardest time with the Nerfs and additions that came with SB. I just feel like they may have already ruined it beyond repair, and if that is the case they need to reinvent it. I don't play WHM so I only had the two options listed for it, I main SCH so I can only see your pain.

[tesni_g]

I had a knee-jerk response to the thought of AST losing regens, but them having shields only does fit thematically. I love my cards more than I love hots, I guess!

I'd also been thinking lately about that "smart" heal as you say, and wondering how intuitive/well that would work. Like an AOE heal that targets the lowest HP person in range, uses whatever potency to get them up, and if there is potency leftover, applies it to the next most in need, so the end result is everyone ending with balanced HP. So it'd be a great tankbuster heal, but would also be very strong in situations where the dps get targetted for a mechanic, so only those 2 or 4 that took intense damage get the healing, and it's more potent because it's not wasting heals on targets that don't need it. But that also seems crazy overpowered and would need some sort of cost.

I wonder what all regens all the time for WHM would look like. But maybe, Medica II has less of the front loaded heal, more potency to the hot? And Medica has a short duration, lower potency regen effect. Oh, and if we want WHM to be super healer, why not pay some homage to FFXI, where WHM rez was the best rez? They get a trait that makes their rez targets come back full health/mana? Not sure about how I feel about that as it would force WHM to be the primary rezzer, and we can't let all those RDMs off the hook.

Maybe WHM can get an ability (not a spell, because I do agree they have enough of those) that eats up all the hots on a target and turns that into either a big heal or some sort of buff? Like Indulgence reworked, and it could be targeted.

How would you feel about WHM getting another ground effect, or a stack with me effect? I always keep coming back to some sort of mitigation tool (not shields, maybe more like reduces damage gone) because at the end of the day, there's only so much that can be done with reactive heals.

How about a spell that either heals or damages depending on the target, something ogcd with a short recast timer? Also, WHM should get some sort of innovative mobility mechanic, by procs or cooldown or gauge.

Would it be too much to ask for a functional, actually instant Benediction?

Nerfing one class does not make another class more fun.

Taking away one class's special toys does not make another class more appealing. It makes that nerfed class less appealing, and there are less people willing to play it, so PF/DF becomes even more bottlenecked. So maybe there would be more "need" for WHM if AST became undesirable, but is that what we want? To be needed only because you're a warm body? WHM as a class deserves better.

Also, WHM should get an instant cast damage spell, maybe water or something. Not as strong as stone spam potency wise, but something worth using while moving.

I have a feeling that whatever SE decides to do with the healers, it's not going to go over well with the masses. :P

[Feidam]

I do not think we should make all healers ogcd healers. Maybe leave that for the whm. So that they can dps and heal with their ocgd. Let the other have a couple ocgd for emergencies but rely on casted heals and utility spells to add to dps. This way you can have different play styles. Want to sling dps spells and ogcd heal play whm, ast Buffs and casts heals, and sch debuffs and cast heals for example. This way the whm dps will be floated by the buffs and debuffs and might help bridge that gap a bit. Just a thought.

[Gemina]

dont mind me just bit angry at fact that yoshi gonna make whm easier

Someone please provide a source where he specifically says this. I'm not finding anything.

[NocturniaUzuki]

I think healers are in a decent state right now, and there are already ways to add a new healer.

The balance thing is overblown. Yes, WHM has a DPS issue, but as far as healing goes, everyone already has enough of that. I don't want to see many or any new healing spells. Anything they add should be done with traits, in my opinion.

WHM's kit is more or less fine as is (minus lilies, and they could maybe use a cooldown-based oGCD party shield or damage reducer), but if they want to boost it's DPS, they can simply raise it's potencies, and I suppose a 1.5s Stone cast wouldn't hurt either. More than that isn't necessary. I get the distinct impression that most people who complain about WHM's lack of mobility don't know and/or don't want to to learn how to play a low-mobility class. BLM has insane damage output, and this is furthered when the player in question knows how to play to minimize movement. Yes, they have Triplecast and the like, but those aren't even needed as often as you think.

Perfect balance is impossible to attain. While WHM obviously gets the short end of the stick right now, that doesn't make it a bad job. If they just flat out boost it's damage output to put it on par with other classes, that would be fine by me.

As for healers in general, I think it's about time we stop getting our hands held and go back to some more challenging content that demands more healing time. If you go back and play old content on MinIL, you will see just how big a difference there is. Basic tank upkeep is actually a fairly active job, and dangerous damage spikes aren't announced by a super long cast bar every time.

But for everyone wanting a challenge, I would also suggest solo healing. Remember, healer is a touchy job. If the party has a bad healer, the fight will wipe without fail. So they can't make it so hard that weaker players can't handle it at all. Instead, they've focused on giving us more than enough tools, then asked the experienced players to have fun by optimizing. And I have no problem with that approach, honestly. Challenge is something people can make for themselves as well.