Why don't astro cards stack?

[Killersai]

Then educate them if they overwrite and you think they may be unaware of it being an issue. That’s also not hard to do.

The issue with your suggestion of rebalancing the cards to allow for double stacking would mean that one would have to nerf their potencies. A nerf like this would have to be handled very carefully, otherwise you risk breaking AST in the opposite direction—i.e., making it worthless and not wanted (this was the case when AST was first released in 3.0, and it suffered from that stigma for a while even after it was buffed to be made better).

As it stands now, there is no reason to break the job in the opposite direction just to deal with a mild annoyance (card overwriting) that can be rectified by educating and communication.



Unwillingness to communication and cooperate =/= bad design.



Two ASTs cannot stack their regens or their shields.

WHM + WHM = stack
WHM + AST = stack
Di AST + Di AST = no stack

i don't think you understand that no matter how many people i educate it will continue to happen, maybe not with the same person in a specific dungeon but it might happen in the next dungeon and it will continue to be an issue. you cannot educate everyone and you shouldn't have to and unless it is changed it will continue to happen especially in the lower levels. and if you don't think lower level content matters then think again because it does and it should as bad design can lead new players away nor does it mean that it isn't an issue. there's ways to rebalance stacking such that you're not nerfing a class on its own as i've stated before, you could stack DURATIONS or have buffs QUEUE on each other such that when one effect ends, the queue'd buff activates.

[HyoMinPark]

i don't think you understand that no matter how many people i educate it will continue to happen, maybe not with the same person in a specific dungeon but it might happen in the next dungeon and it will continue to be an issue. you cannot educate everyone and you shouldn't have to and unless it is changed it will continue to happen especially in the lower levels. and just because you don't think lower level content matters then think again because it does and it should as bad design can lead new players away.

I’ll just repeat what I said: unwillingness to cooperate by not overwriting card buffs does not mean that this is a bad/lazy design. There are myriads of other buffs and party resources that do not currently stack just like AST cards do not: BRD’s passive crit buffs, BRD’s Battle Voice, BRD’s Foe Requiem, DRG’s Battle Litany, NIN’s Trick Attack, SCH’s Chain Stratagem, PLD’s Divine Veil, WAR’s Shake it Off, MCH’s Hypercharge, SMN’s Devotion. Why should AST be the exception? It shouldn’t. That would be a balancing nightmare.

Lower level content doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things; balancing should not be around leveling dungeons, but level-capped content where optimization takes place (e.g., Extremes, Savage, Ultimate). Though it wasn’t me who said that, so perhaps pay more attention to who you’re responding to.

there's ways to rebalance stacking such that you're not nerfing a class on its own as i've stated before, you could stack DURATIONS or have buffs QUEUE on each other such that when one effect ends, the queue'd buff activates.

This is already possible—it’s called paying attention to your co-AST, watching their buffs, and timing your own. This can even be done without communication—I’ve done it multiple times in all sorts of 8-man content at the level 50, level 60, and level 70 level. It’s truly not that difficult.

Your suggested change is not needed.

[Veis_Alveare]

i don't think you understand that no matter how many people i educate it will continue to happen, maybe not with the same person in a specific dungeon but it might happen in the next dungeon and it will continue to be an issue. you cannot educate everyone and you shouldn't have to and unless it is changed it will continue to happen especially in the lower levels. and if you don't think lower level content matters then think again because it does and it should as bad design can lead new players away nor does it mean that it isn't an issue. there's ways to rebalance stacking such that you're not nerfing a class on its own as i've stated before, you could stack DURATIONS or have buffs QUEUE on each other such that when one effect ends, the queue'd buff activates.

But what you're missing is that it doesn't matter.

Most of the people you meet in random Trial roulettes or whatever are doing so little damage that losing the 5% buff from your spread balance literally is nothing to the run.

Either talk to people or don't but asking for a change that would effect high end raiding for the sake of your feelings in casual content is entitled and shortsighted. We don't balance around fluffing trial roulette in a game that has content like Ultimate, I'm sorry if that upsets you then pick a new job.

[Seraphor]

Ironically, regens do stack, all of them.
WHM and AST, two WHMs, or two ASTs, you can stack all their regens.

Edit due to daily post limit:

Two ASTs cannot stack their regens or their shields.

WHM + WHM = stack
WHM + AST = stack
Di AST + Di AST = no stack

No they do.
Shields don’t stack, but all regens do stack. Play dual Diurnal AST and you’ll see the two sets of Helios and two Benefics on your tank.

It's a shield thing, not a dual AST thing.

[Killersai]

Ironically, regens do stack, all of them.
WHM and AST, two WHMs, or two ASTs, you can stack all their regens.

that's good then. they should stack if they're all coming from multiple players. i don't see why they shouldn't. arguing that they would be OP is a bad response that only gives credit to lazy developers. I can understand not allowing buffs to stack as a design choice such as having astros be designed to fulfill a counterpart to regen or shielding when paired with a white mage or scholar respectively but simply not allowing buffs to stack with each other "cuz they be op" is a poor and lazy design choice that defeats the purpose of grouping up.

[Seraphor]

Oh and as it seems I can post again:

Ironically, regens do stack, all of them.
WHM and AST, two WHMs, or two ASTs, you can stack all their regens.

Edit due to daily post limit:


No they do.
Shields don’t stack, but all regens do stack. Play dual Diurnal AST and you’ll see the two sets of Helios and two Benefics on your tank.

It's a shield thing, not a dual AST thing.

[Veis_Alveare]

Oh and as it seems I can post again:

It defintely isn't though. I'm 100% sure you can't stack any AST regen, not even Wheel of Fortune.

[HyoMinPark]

Oh and as it seems I can post again:

See my long post above. Diurnal AST HoTs do not stack.

Diurnal AST HoTs do not stack the same way WHM HoTs do. They never have. That's why you don't see two ASTs both in Diurnal Sect for things - one is always Diurnal and the other is always Nocturnal. And that's not because of a "shields are needed" thing either (shields aren't needed for anything other than high-tier Savage and Ultimate); it's because AST regens do not stack with one another. CU’s HoT also does not stack if you have two ASTs. None of their buffs stack, except for maybe Synastry (and I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t).

I literally just tested this with a friend—we were both Diurnal AST in a party and our regens (both Aspected Helios and Aspected Benefic) overwrote one another’s. They do not stack.

If you think I'm wrong, feel free to test it as well.

[JowyAtreides]

Still doesn't change the fact that it is a complete pain in the rear when another AST overwrites your buff. No matter your own self awareness. Sure people can educate others, but it would be often enough to set up a macro for it and half the time you'll be greeted with a "don't tell me how to play my class" response.

As for actual suggestions...
They shouldn't stack if they are the same card in my opinion.
If they are different AND from another player, I don't see the harm. I think the RNG element is enough to not make this too overpowered, most of the time anyway.

They'll have to do something with the cards for Shadowbringers anyway, due to removal of TP and therefore making the current Spire redundant. Someone suggested on another thread this could become a direct hit buff which I guess is the last remaining stat to receive attention thus far.

Also, do savage/ultimate/extreme organised parties typically NOT have 2 players of the same class and therefore this isn't a problem for them anyway?

[Veis_Alveare]

Also, do savage/ultimate/extreme organised parties typically NOT have 2 players of the same class and therefore this isn't a problem for them anyway?

It's not about it being a problem it's about it being the best possible thing for optimization. Even SCH wouldn't be able to compete with double AST if cards were stackable, they'd just be too good.

funny how my response to you above still applies here because you've not said anything new, different or helpful.

It seems like the only thing you would accept is people agreeing with you.

If you came here to have your preconceived notion validated you came to the wrong place, anyone with any amount of experience playing AST/healing/raiding in general wouldn't think this is a good (or fair) suggestion.

You're bringing up a problem that doesn't exist and asking for a solution. The solution is that you don't have a problem. That is helpful, I'm telling you exactly what you need to do - nothing.

I understand you don't like having your cards overwritten. No one does. That's fine, but the fact of the matter is that your cards are providing almost nothing in any content where this could matter. An AST's cards are worth what their group makes them worth, the issue here is that in a pug environment your chances of running into anyone that's any good are slim. 5% of one competent dps's damage occasionally isn't much and losing that isn't much either.

All this boils down to you not liking how losing your cards feels. The game isn't balanced around that nor should it be.