Why don't astro cards stack?

[Killersai]

And no i don't mean why can't i hold a balance and wait for the next draw and put both on a single target, i mean why don't the cards from multiple astros stack with each other? if one astro aoe casts a balance and another wants to aoe cast another card it'll override the other astro's card off of everybody. seems pretty crappy that we have to be careful to not step on each other's toes like that.

havent gotten the chance to play other healers past 30 so i wouldn't know but would 2 white mages' hots stack with each other? because they should and i hope they do otherwise it would be really dumb to have a system that allows 2 of the same class to be grouped together and have their abilities not fully be able to work together. DPS don't have this problem with their dots for obvious reasons so I hope it's not the case with the rest of the healers.

no i'm not arguing for astro hots to stack with white mage hots either because i understand the design that they're supposed to fulfill a counterpart with the sects. just astro to astro cards and white mage to white mage hots and scholar to scholar shields.

[Veis_Alveare]

And no i don't mean why can't i hold a balance and wait for the next draw and put both on a single target, i mean why don't the cards from multiple astros stack with each other? if one astro aoe casts a balance and another wants to aoe cast another card it'll override the other astro's card off of everybody. seems pretty crappy that we have to be careful to not step on each other's shoes like that.

havent gotten the chance to play other healers past 30 so i wouldn't know but would 2 white mages' hots stack with each other? because they should and i hope they do otherwise it would be really dumb to have a system that allows 2 of the same class to be grouped together and have their abilities not fully be able to work together. DPS don't have this problem with their dots for obvious reasons so I hope it's not the case with the rest of the healers.

no i'm not arguing for astro hots to stack with white mage hots either because i understand the design that they're supposed to fulfill a counterpart with the sects. just astro to astro cards and white mage to white mage hots and scholar to scholar shields.

AST cards don't stack because they would be OP.

AST regens do stack with whm regens just not another ASTs same Regen.

[Killersai]

if they would be OP then they should be rebalanced. this isn't a very good response. it's bad multiplayer design to allow 2 players to override eachothers benefits. that should not happen. everyone should be able to use their full capabilities with each other without worry that they'll screw each other over. and i didn't ask about AST regens and WHM regens. i'm asking if a WHM puts a regen on someone and a second WHM puts the same regen on the same character do they stack? BECAUSE THEY SHOULD

[HyoMinPark]

if they would be OP then they should be rebalanced. this isn't a very good response. it's bad multiplayer design to allow 2 players to override eachothers benefits. that should not happen. everyone should be able to use their full capabilities with each other without worry that they'll screw each other over. and i didn't ask about AST regens and WHM regens. i'm asking if a WHM puts a regen on someone and a second WHM puts the same regen on the same character do they stack? BECAUSE THEY SHOULD

Overwriting cards can be easily avoided if you just communicate with your co-AST. It’s not that difficult to do.

Despite the cards not stacking, back in Creator there were speedkills done with double AST when Balance was +20% for single target and +10% for AOE.

WHM regens stack with one another—you can have double Regens and double Medica II HoTs.

[Killersai]

Overwriting cards can be easily avoided if you just communicate with your co-AST. It’s not that difficult to do.

Despite the cards not stacking, back in Creator there were speedkills done with double AST when Balance was +20% for single target and +10% for AOE.

WHM regens stack with one another—you can have double Regens and double Medica II HoTs.

it's not difficult but it will happen with randoms until it is changed no matter what level of communication you preach. it's bad design and they should rebalance them in such a way that you can't screw each other over.

[Veis_Alveare]

it's not difficult but it will happen with randoms until it is changed no matter what level of communication you preach. it's bad design and they should rebalance them in such a way that you can't screw each other over.

In any content like that it literally doesn't matter.

If you're doing savage talk to your cohealer or don't go double ast.

[Kurando]

snip.

It's not really bad design if you pay attention to what you are doing, and this isn't just an AST but many jobs cannot double stack buffs as they would be OP.

[HyoMinPark]

Because that would be absolutely broken if you could do things like stack two balances on an entire party. Each AOE Balance is +5% straight damage—allowing two of them would be +10% straight damage. This was actually the case briefly during Creator (Patch 3.4) up until Deltascape released (Patch 4.05), and it completely broke the job and killed WHM in the process (and WHM was already dying slowly back then from lack of personal damage and horrible MP management). WHM already struggles to be viable at optimal levels against AST; it really doesn’t need stacking Balances thrown against it—that would kill WHM deader than WHM is currently if ASTs could stack their buffs, and it would probably threaten SCH as well. I could easily see the new healer meta being Diurnal AST/Nocturnal AST.


Tl;dr—balancing is why ASTs cannot stack their cards.

[Killersai]

Because that would be absolutely broken if you could do things like stack two balances on an entire party.

this is a very bad way to rebalance. they should stack differently then or refresh durations or be queue'd so that they're not overriden. if i happen to be playing AST with another AST that doesn't know this, and i AOE balance, and he AOE's something else and removes my balance off everyone, the whole group suffers because of poor design choices that should not be the case. there are different ways to rebalance a class without making half their benefit becoming limited by simply being grouped with a second player of your same class.

[HyoMinPark]

this is a very bad way to rebalance. they should stack differently then or refresh durations or be queue'd so that they're not overriden. if i happen to be playing AST with another AST that doesn't know this, and i AOE balance, and he AOE's something else and removes my balance off everyone, the whole group suffers because of poor design choices that should not be the case. there are different ways to rebalance a class without making half their benefit becoming limited by simply being grouped with a second player of your same class.

Then educate them if they overwrite and you think they may be unaware of it being an issue. That’s also not hard to do.

The issue with your suggestion of rebalancing the cards to allow for double stacking would mean that one would have to nerf their potencies. A nerf like this would have to be handled very carefully, otherwise you risk breaking AST in the opposite direction—i.e., making it worthless and not wanted (this was the case when AST was first released in 3.0, and it suffered from that stigma for a while even after it was buffed to be made better).

As it stands now, there is no reason to break the job in the opposite direction just to deal with a mild annoyance (card overwriting) that can be rectified by educating and communication.

it's not difficult but it will happen with randoms until it is changed no matter what level of communication you preach. it's bad design and they should rebalance them in such a way that you can't screw each other over.

Unwillingness to communication and cooperate =/= bad design.

"buff stacking is OP? well then let's not let it happen in the first place! simple

This has already been taken care of—AST cards don’t stack, nor do they need to.

This is not something new. There are other party buffs in this game that do not stack. Refresh and Tactician buffs do not stack if you have multiple physical ranged. Nor should they. DRG’s Battle Litany do not stack. SCH’s Chain Stratagem do not stack. WAR’s Shake it Off and PLD’s Divine Veil do not stack. This is not “lazy design” — this is preventing players from forming meta comps with double jobs and ousting even more roles from optimized settings.

Ironically, regens do stack, all of them.
WHM and AST, two WHMs, or two ASTs, you can stack all their regens.

Two ASTs cannot stack their regens or their shields.

WHM + WHM = stack
WHM + AST = stack
Di AST + Di AST = no stack